Which case prep center?
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Just to clarify your request.
Do you want to primarly or only TRIM cases to length or do you want to trim and do all the other fiddling around stuff like primer pocket uniforming, cleaning chamfering and deburring??
The FA will NOT do any straight wall brass ( why you want to do that?? , is well your choice
)
For trimming I use a RCBS Trim Pro, checked into a power drill, with a 3 way cutter it does it all but not primer pockets which I do not mess with.
Do you want to primarly or only TRIM cases to length or do you want to trim and do all the other fiddling around stuff like primer pocket uniforming, cleaning chamfering and deburring??
The FA will NOT do any straight wall brass ( why you want to do that?? , is well your choice
)For trimming I use a RCBS Trim Pro, checked into a power drill, with a 3 way cutter it does it all but not primer pockets which I do not mess with.
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Reeferman
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Just to clarify your request.
Do you want to primarly or only TRIM cases to length or do you want to trim and do all the other fiddling around stuff like primer pocket uniforming, cleaning chamfering and deburring??
The FA will NOT do any straight wall brass ( why you want to do that?? , is well your choice
For trimming I use a RCBS Trim Pro, checked into a power drill, with a 3 way cutter it does it all but not primer pockets which I do not mess with.
I want one that will trim straight wall cases, the ability to do bottle neck when I start to reload them and have the chamfer/debur tools, primer pocket cleaner and neck brushes as well. The only two I have found that can do this are the two I posted.
How about, "None of the above?"
I have been using an L.E. Wilson tool since 1980 to 1) debur trimmed brass, 2) chamfer trimmed brass, and 3) until recently to remove the primer pocket crimp from milirary brass. Given that, what does a $23 Wilson tool do that a $100+ "case prep center" doesn't?
- What's your Body Mass Index (BMI)?
- What is your resting hearbear?
- What is your A1C?
Order this:http://leeprecision.com/threaded-cutter.html, then order the LEE case trimmer in the caliber that you want to trim, and use the hand trimmer with the LEE adapter in any case prep center that you choose.
Just one solution
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Well I have to say I'm touched by the concern for my health, however I'm more concerned about reading comprehension about what it is I'm asking about.
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GW Staar
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You're not getting many replies for the two centers you linked to, mostly because they are pricey & fairly new. I do all the things you want to do, but I collected the tools to do it before either of those products were in production......so I had to work around using the older RCBS prep center and a motorized Forster trimmer mounted vertically and actuated by a foot pedal. Later, when it came out, I added an RCBS bench-mounted military crimp swager. What I have works so well I haven't felt the need to buy one of the new red or green prep centers/trimmers.............BUT, had I just now graduated to a progressive press, and come to the sudden realization that case prep is now a serious slow bottleneck.......I would buy one of the two you listed.
I've looked at both of them pretty closely and like features of each. Here's my take:
RCBS Pluses: Trimmer uses a 3-way trimmer like my Forster......Big Plus; prep tools are on top so gravity helps you (at my age another plus) Variable speed is a nice plus the old prep center didn't have. The trimmer isn't vertical, but it does have automatic feed so it doesn't matter. Universal case holder is neat.
Hornady Plus: Trimmer is vertical and gravity helps.....only thing is I don't personally care for the case holder on it....but that's a personal thing....no 3-way cutter that I'm aware of.
Now, I use a swager for military crimps, but I also use a reamer on the case prep center for ID & good measure. Being swaged, it takes just a bump to put a tiny round-over on the case head, to make it easier for me to tell that the case has been previously swaged.
Don't know what hdwhit reloads with.....or how young he is, but I used to case prep the same way he does........and besides my progressive press, the smartest thing I bought was the little RCBS case prep center.....reloading pleasure doubled. One pass through all the stations takes seconds and a lot of drudgery work is mitigated.....which is why I decided to mount and motorize the little Forster trimmer......and add the three-way cutter....more annoyances "mitigated"!
The reason I wondered how old hdwhit is is because if he's young he has more strength, patience, energy to do case prep the hard way, than I do. I've reloaded for nearly 45 years.....I'm tireder, crankier, and NOT patient anymore.....I need all the help I can git.
With my setup now where motorized trimming is in another location, I trim a 100 rounds of sized/deprimed rifle in less than 5 minutes and they are trimmed,deburred and chamfered in that one operation. Then I swage, uniform the primer pocket depth and deburr flash holes in a second operation (swager is setup to do that at the same time) and that operation for 100 rounds takes about 10 to 15 minutes. so at most 20 minutes of case prep for 100 rounds, not counting the sizing operation. On the new RCBS unit after the sizing/deprime operation I would be able do it all rest of the case prep in one operation!
On my progressive I do two passes. One to size......(case prep off the press ... the bottle neck no matter how it's done).... then one to charge, seat, and crimp. Speeding up that bottleneck is sure as heck important to me!
I've looked at both of them pretty closely and like features of each. Here's my take:
RCBS Pluses: Trimmer uses a 3-way trimmer like my Forster......Big Plus; prep tools are on top so gravity helps you (at my age another plus) Variable speed is a nice plus the old prep center didn't have. The trimmer isn't vertical, but it does have automatic feed so it doesn't matter. Universal case holder is neat.
Hornady Plus: Trimmer is vertical and gravity helps.....only thing is I don't personally care for the case holder on it....but that's a personal thing....no 3-way cutter that I'm aware of.
Now, I use a swager for military crimps, but I also use a reamer on the case prep center for ID & good measure. Being swaged, it takes just a bump to put a tiny round-over on the case head, to make it easier for me to tell that the case has been previously swaged.
Don't know what hdwhit reloads with.....or how young he is, but I used to case prep the same way he does........and besides my progressive press, the smartest thing I bought was the little RCBS case prep center.....reloading pleasure doubled. One pass through all the stations takes seconds and a lot of drudgery work is mitigated.....which is why I decided to mount and motorize the little Forster trimmer......and add the three-way cutter....more annoyances "mitigated"!
The reason I wondered how old hdwhit is is because if he's young he has more strength, patience, energy to do case prep the hard way, than I do. I've reloaded for nearly 45 years.....I'm tireder, crankier, and NOT patient anymore.....I need all the help I can git.
With my setup now where motorized trimming is in another location, I trim a 100 rounds of sized/deprimed rifle in less than 5 minutes and they are trimmed,deburred and chamfered in that one operation. Then I swage, uniform the primer pocket depth and deburr flash holes in a second operation (swager is setup to do that at the same time) and that operation for 100 rounds takes about 10 to 15 minutes. so at most 20 minutes of case prep for 100 rounds, not counting the sizing operation. On the new RCBS unit after the sizing/deprime operation I would be able do it all rest of the case prep in one operation!
On my progressive I do two passes. One to size......(case prep off the press ... the bottle neck no matter how it's done).... then one to charge, seat, and crimp. Speeding up that bottleneck is sure as heck important to me!
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GW Staar
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You also seem interested in trim accuracy/alignment ......
I think all of them are pretty good at that......some say the Wilson is the best because is gauges off the shoulder....If you are a benchrest shooter then you do everything the slow way. For the rest of us accuracy is fine as long as you watch for buggered case heads that can skew a case in a case holder....you just have to purge or fix buggered case heads.....and you can purge them by feel quickly.
As for pistol brass trimming, the RCBS does that fine.....don't know if they make three-way cutters for every size tho (Forster doesn't), you may have to use the original cutter, and deburr/chamfer separately. The shorts aren't usually sized often if ever, (.45, .40, 9mm, .380) but .357 .44 or .30 carbine is another matter.
I think all of them are pretty good at that......some say the Wilson is the best because is gauges off the shoulder....If you are a benchrest shooter then you do everything the slow way. For the rest of us accuracy is fine as long as you watch for buggered case heads that can skew a case in a case holder....you just have to purge or fix buggered case heads.....and you can purge them by feel quickly.
As for pistol brass trimming, the RCBS does that fine.....don't know if they make three-way cutters for every size tho (Forster doesn't), you may have to use the original cutter, and deburr/chamfer separately. The shorts aren't usually sized often if ever, (.45, .40, 9mm, .380) but .357 .44 or .30 carbine is another matter.
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GW Staar really apprieciate your thoughtful reply. I'm 60 in a few months and all the years as a refrigeration mechanic has taken its toll especially the shoulders. Had one rotator cuff surgery on left 3 years ago and have ripped right rotator cuff last spring. Hoping not to get surgery as been getting cortisone injections in it.
Trimming with any manual or drill operated trimmer is just not going to work as I found out with the Lyman Ezee Trim for any amount.
It's 357 and 44 revolver, 303 British and 30-06 that I do now and 223/556 will be done shortly.
My brother in law has a RCBS Trim Pro 1 and case prep that I'm guessing are 15 or so years old. Was going to go that route with a Trim Pro 2 and case prep but then seen the two I posted about.
Yes they are expensive especially in Canada as the Hornady is pushing $700.00 and the RCBS about the same.
The reviews I've been reading on both seem to have as many negatives as positives. The universal case holder on the RCBS seems to have some issues of not holding cases securely and plastic thumb screws to hold the top to the bottom rail.
The Hornady doesn't have a so called micro adjuster like the RCBS. Cutter on both not so good though like you said the 3 way cutter can be installed on the RCBS but haven't found out if it can on the Hornady.
I watched a really good you tube video on it by the guy named Hornadyloader. I've watched several of his and he tells it the way it is.
It seems you have a good setup going and one thing about it if one does break then you still have the others to work with. That does concern me about the two prep centers running off the same motor as things are just not made the same.
Anyways thanks for the information.
Trimming with any manual or drill operated trimmer is just not going to work as I found out with the Lyman Ezee Trim for any amount.
It's 357 and 44 revolver, 303 British and 30-06 that I do now and 223/556 will be done shortly.
My brother in law has a RCBS Trim Pro 1 and case prep that I'm guessing are 15 or so years old. Was going to go that route with a Trim Pro 2 and case prep but then seen the two I posted about.
Yes they are expensive especially in Canada as the Hornady is pushing $700.00 and the RCBS about the same.
The reviews I've been reading on both seem to have as many negatives as positives. The universal case holder on the RCBS seems to have some issues of not holding cases securely and plastic thumb screws to hold the top to the bottom rail.
The Hornady doesn't have a so called micro adjuster like the RCBS. Cutter on both not so good though like you said the 3 way cutter can be installed on the RCBS but haven't found out if it can on the Hornady.
I watched a really good you tube video on it by the guy named Hornadyloader. I've watched several of his and he tells it the way it is.
It seems you have a good setup going and one thing about it if one does break then you still have the others to work with. That does concern me about the two prep centers running off the same motor as things are just not made the same.
Anyways thanks for the information.
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GW Staar
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I totally detached my Subscapula muscle-tendon from my left shoulder....surgury was in September.....still going through P.T. (pain and torture) treatments. I wouldn't wish this on anybody. I just turned 67 a week ago. Sigh. Life, I'm afraid, isn't going to get easier. I made my trimmer setup to make trimming easier for tired and overworked hands and wrists. (Building Contractor....hammers don't wear out much, but wrists do)
Since you are a mechanic, just for fun I'm attaching a video I made a couple of years ago showing how I turned my Forster into a shoulder/arm/hand friendly trimmer.........I don't have to hold on tight to anything. Click on the thumbnail picture to see the video.
Here's a link to the swager I reviewed that shows how I use it with my old Trimmate prep center. (click the video there.) http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/366824_.html&page=1
Since you are a mechanic, just for fun I'm attaching a video I made a couple of years ago showing how I turned my Forster into a shoulder/arm/hand friendly trimmer.........I don't have to hold on tight to anything. Click on the thumbnail picture to see the video.
Here's a link to the swager I reviewed that shows how I use it with my old Trimmate prep center. (click the video there.) http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/366824_.html&page=1
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Ha ha I love it. I think you would not want to get one of the ones I posted as I bet your setup is far more accurate as you made it rather than someone in china.
Did you make that case extractor? After seeing what you made I'm going to think about this before I do anything.
Did you make that case extractor? After seeing what you made I'm going to think about this before I do anything.
GW Staar
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Make the case extractor? Ha Ha Ha! Yeah the really high tech part of the project! See the picture below. (piano wire from an RC store and a screw)
If you go back and click the video again you will notice arrows on both sides.....click an arrow and you can page through all the project pictures and explanations of them...use, ignore, improve, what ever you want. The clutched drywall screw gun was the most important part.....allowing the shaft to turn only when there's something pushed into it. The connection to the trimmer is a drill interface Forster sells separately.......otherwise it's just a Forster original trimmer bought 40 years ago and still made the same way (quality) today.
(piano wire from an RC store and a screw)If you go back and click the video again you will notice arrows on both sides.....click an arrow and you can page through all the project pictures and explanations of them...use, ignore, improve, what ever you want. The clutched drywall screw gun was the most important part.....allowing the shaft to turn only when there's something pushed into it. The connection to the trimmer is a drill interface Forster sells separately.......otherwise it's just a Forster original trimmer bought 40 years ago and still made the same way (quality) today.
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Actually looked at it while waiting to get another shot in my shoulder. That adaptor for the trimmer has a 1/4" male end on it to fit in the drywall screw gun end I'm guessing?
I noticed on the Forester trimmer you have the adjuster collar looks a bit different from one on the Forester site below.
Also found this. Not sure how well that would work with a small drill press.
Scroll down the page a bit.
http://www.forsterproducts.com/forster-products-case-conditioning-system/
I noticed on the Forester trimmer you have the adjuster collar looks a bit different from one on the Forester site below.
Also found this. Not sure how well that would work with a small drill press.
Scroll down the page a bit.
http://www.forsterproducts.com/forster-products-case-conditioning-system/
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GW Staar
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female end screws into the trimmer shaft. Male end looks like a square rather than the usual hex for driver bits......been too long....I must have used a converter from square to hex, but the details are foggy. I'm wondering if they offered a hex style adapter as well. They do show 3 part #'s for the converters, but only show the one. You might have to email them on that. I thought mine was hex and just pushed in, but I just can't remember. I'll see if I can take it apart that far.
For a drill press, they make this:
That's a conventional cutter shaft shown......the three-way just slides over it and set-screws to it. So that's another simpler option if you have a small (accurate) drill press you can dedicate to it.
For a drill press, they make this:
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