Which of these served best for its time and purpose?

[Eightball]

To this day, the only modern weapons in use chambered for it are SVD, PSL, PKM, type 67, and UK59's which are being replaced by the 7.62mm nato version I believe.

You listed 5 weapon types that are some of the most common across the planet, and that's the only weapons it's chambered in? I guess that means SVDs suck, PSLs are even worse, PKMs must jam and fail to extract because of old rounds, etc.

Sorry, but if they're still cranking out as many thousands of those firearms as they can produce to chamber a round that's over 100 years old.....I still think that that has served it's purpose better than .308 or '06 (since '06 is still in use today by multiple modern militaries across the earth.....)

 

[Evil Monkey]

For untrained terrorists, thugs and mokes an AK is the answer. Get in close, spray and pray.

One of the most ignorant statements ever made on THR.

You listed 5 weapon types that are some of the most common across the planet, and that's the only weapons it's chambered in? I guess that means SVDs suck, PSLs are even worse, PKMs must jam and fail to extract because of old rounds, etc.

Sorry, but if they're still cranking out as many thousands of those firearms as they can produce to chamber a round that's over 100 years old.....I still think that that has served it's purpose better than .308 or '06 (since '06 is still in use today by multiple modern militaries across the earth.....

I'm just saying that new designs will overshadow 7.62x54R weapons because none will be chambered in that cartridge anymore because of the rimmed design.

 

[saturno_v]

The rimmed design has its own advantages....

 

[saturno_v]

Did you guys ever saw the long range ballistic of some 7,62 X 54 R rounds??

This is on Sniper Central http://www.snipercentral.com/762R.htm there is a table of data for the 185 gr BT variant.

At 1000 yards has more retained energy than a 300 Win Mag....

 

[Neo-Luddite]

7.62 x 54R, from a global perspective, probably can't be topped.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

i repeat my humble question....did 303 not serve britons and british empire very well?

I would say so.

 

[Smith357]

Depends on the purpose, for war probably the 7.62x54r. While the 06 is a fine old war horse its king for putting food on the table.

 

[Ash]

Well, the 54r is just as capable in a hunting rifle as the 30-06. Of course, the 30-06 is the undeniable king in the sporter market, especially in the US. But the 54r outlived it by double the service life, and is still in wide use worldwide, including in Russia, China, and the Middle East.

Ash

 

[Slamfire]

You forgot the 8mm Mauser. That round was one of the first if not the first smokeless military rounds and it was rimless. Developed, what 1888?

While the British, Russians, French were all having to figure out how to design a magazine so the rim would not jam, the Germans had a much simpler and better approach; no rims.

This round served quite well in WWI and WWII, and only went out of service because of Nato Standardization. Was widely used in Europe and Africa as a hunting round, and served well in that capacity too.

On the muzzle end, with a 196 grain bullet it was a decisive manstopper, and with a metal buttplate, it hurt on the buttstock end too!

The Swiss did not go to war with anyone, but the 7.5 Swiss is an excellent and well designed round in its own right. And it is also an 1880's vintage round.

 

[Ash]

Nope, I gave it its props back in post 4.

"As a bolt-action round, it probably was no better than the contemporary 303 British and probably inferior to the 8mm Mauser. In a semi-auto rifle, the 30-06, 308, 7.62x39, and 8mm Mauser are all better than the 54r."

 

[Firepower!]

while lots of good posts on 54R and although I voted for 7.562x39 since the afghan war and etc, i highly favor 54R over 30-06 since 06 is limited to US and is expensive elsewhere. On the other hand PKs are still firing 54R and snipping wise 54R is and was far superior in it is time.
Ivoted ak round because its most widey used ever...however..i remain skeptical in terms of what it actually served other then freedom fighters, terrorist, armies, and private citizens at a very large scale then any other caertridge
Sorry for not puttimng 8mm should hjave instead of 5.45x39.

 

[Firepower!]

just bought my 06 remington 700 now i dont feel bad that 06 is winning this poll

 

[dagger dog]

tough call as a nephew of old UNC SAM want to put the '06 first but to be honest ya gota give it to the Ruskies! the old 7.62X54r is the grandaddy of the spitzer round that the Mauser brothers got the kudos for.
hell the gun shops are full of the rifles chambered for them right now!
ain't many rounds that carry that kind of history for that long!

 

[Float Pilot]

The responses to this thread would have been very different 30 years ago.
Back when you were just as likely to see a 1895 Winchester in 7.62x54r as a M-91. Back when if you had an SKS, you might have to make brass from a Mannlicher caritridge. Or in 1970 when my first Hornady reloading book said that the 5.56x45mm (223 rem) would probably never catch on as a sporting cartridge.

Various cartridges have enjoyed a long service life when used for military applications.

The 6.5 x 55mm Swede was developed between 1892 to 1894 and was still used in the 1990s in the Swedish Army's M-41b sniper rifles during UN deployments. As of yesterday that cartridge is still being used locked and loaded by the Swede Palace guards. So 114 years of service life.

The 7.5 Schmidt Rubin was developed in 1889 and was used until the 1980s. Ballistically about the same as the 7.62 Nato and oddly similar in size. So it was a 100 year service life cartidge.

The 7.92 x57mm Mauser was developed in 1888 and modified in 1905. We saw it being used in Kosovo, Croatia and other former Yugo night spots in the 1990s. So another 110 year service life.

The 303 British was first issued in 1888. It continued as the basic Brit service cartidge until 1958 and was used in sniper rifles for a few years after that. It was also used in other places as a standard or secondary cartridge for a few more years in places like India and Pakistan. It was still encountered by the Soviets in Afganistan in the 1980s. Not to mention various places in Africa. So 100 years of service life.

The 7.62 x 54Rimmed, (which is nearly a 303 British clone as far as the case is concerned) was first issued in 1891 and still continues on in various places around the earth. 117 years of service.

The 7.62 x 39mm, was probably a spin off from captured guns and ammo using the German 8mm Kurtz. Developed in 1943 and going into production after WWII. Historically it is significant since it caried on when the 7.92 kurtz could not. Being the first widely issued intermediate rifle round. 63 years of front line continual service.

30-06: An improved version of the US cartridge of 1903. This in turn was really an upsized version of the 7 x57mm Mauser of 1892, (as the 1903 Springfield was really an upsized M-98 Mauser with modificatons,)
Used from 1906 until the late 1950s as the primary US military round, it was still issued to other countries via US arms and ammo until the late 1960s. Plus it was used as a sniper round. During the 1980s some films of weapons being tossed from Helos to the Contras in Central America will disclose a number of M-1 Garand rifles and boxes of 30 cal ammo. 60 plus year service life, although it really did not offer anything new when developed.

5.56mm NATO: Developed in the late 1950s, this round was first issued to some US Air Force troops before being excepted by the US Army in 1964. (Was also being carried by some Secret Service guys during the Kennedy motorcade in Dallas)
Historically significant since it resulted in an eventual change in the standard NATO issue round to the 5.56mm. A complete change in thinking to a smaller caliber intermediate rifle round followed in numerous countries which were not NATO aligned. 45 plus years of Service.

7.62MM NATO: Developed in 1950, it was really not issued in any numbers until the late 1950s. This was really a shortened 30-06 round that is very similar in size, shape and performance to the 7.5 Swiss. Still in widespread use in machine guns and sniper rifles. 50 years of service.

 

[Hoppy590]

1895 Winchester in 7.62x54r as a M-91.

if only i could find some one to make that mistake now!

 

[Float Pilot]

I had a 1895 Winchester musket in 7.62x54 rimmed long before I ever had a Mosin.
Back then you could hardly give away an odd caliber 95. I wish I still had that too. Oh for the dumb mistakes I made selling things that I can never get back.

 

[Firepower!]

Seems like 06 has better opinion among THR members. Perhaps because it is an American round being discussed on American based forum.

BUT I reiterate my support for 7.62x39 since it is virtually found in almost every army since it inception in 47. Served its purpose in many places of the world whether they were right or wrong. And still to this date new weapons are being made in it.

However, if we look at 54R- great great round and so is 303 British is it not? Thus 06, 303, and 54R sort of fall in same category, yet AK47 round is apart from them in terms of it wide use around the world. .223 also good, but I hate to say that as good as a round is no rifle is yet made that is just flawless for it, eg: M4/M16 jamming issues, Ruger Mini14 not a war gun, list goes on.

 

[Firepower!]

other than m1 garand what other rifle successfully used 06!?

 

[ditchdigger]

1903A1-3, P17, the m1919 machine gun used 30/06, and the BAR

 

[squirrel sniper]

the 7.62x39 was created as an inexpensive round to arm a large army of poorly trained conscripts. It suceeded with this and has been used by people in almost every nation to do anything that needed a firearm, and it did so more cheeply than anything else. And the M60 used 7.62NATO

 

[Firepower!]

I expected the 303 and AK47 round to do better if not win the poll.