Which was/is faster? SAA or 1860?

[Topgun]

Curious about extended firefights with each. Would the percussion with replacement loaded cylinders be faster reloading than the solid frame of the SAA?

Especially with the first generation SAA's with the screw retained cylinder pin.

"Whut's da best one fer injun attack?"

 

[Majic]

The SAA wins. The 1860 Army required the removal of the barrel to change out cylinder. Driving the wedge pin out, removing barrel, removing cyliner, the reverse the procedure took time.
Now the 1858 Remington was a fast loader.

 

[Johnny Guest]

The 1858 Remington - - -

So right about the speed of reloading with spare cylinder, Majic.

What movie was it where Clint Eastwood did a speedload by swapping cylinders? I believe it was Pale Rider.

OTOH, if you don't have a loaded spare - - -
I saw a movie with one of the OLD western stars - - like from the 1930s - - involved in a protracted battle in an old mining camp. He was reloading a percussion Remington under fire, and he looked really desperate.


Johnny

 

[C.R.Sam]

He was reloading a percussion Remington under fire, and he looked really desperate.

Logical.

Sam

 

[Jim K]

Hi, guys,

Actually percussion revolvers were usually loaded with cartridges and a capper, so they were pretty quick to load even without spare cylinders. Loading with loose powder and balls would have been done only when cartridges were unavailable or too expensive. (One advantage of the percussion revolver, and one reason they remained in use right up to the 20th century, was that people in remote areas or on long trips needed have only a bar of lead, a mold, powder and caps.)

Please permit a note on spare capped cylinders for a percussion revolver. Spare cylinders were fairly common in the West and very common in the Civil War. But they have no place on the range today.

A capped cylinder can all too easily be dropped or roll off a bench. If it falls on something hard, like a concrete firing point, a cap can go off and convert the cylinder into a short barrel pistol. I shudder to think what a capped cylinder dropping between my legs could do to.......

Jim

 

[Ala Dan]

Ah ! The Colt 1860 Army

What a true "American Classic".

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Majic]

Actually percussion revolvers were usually loaded with cartridges and a capper, so they were pretty quick to load even without spare cylinders. Loading with loose powder and balls would have been done only when cartridges were unavailable or too expensive. (One advantage of the percussion revolver, and one reason they remained in use right up to the 20th century, was that people in remote areas or on long trips needed have only a bar of lead, a mold, powder and caps.)

What cartridge was used in percussion revolvers? How were the fired cases removed from the cylinder chambers? How was a cap used in conjuntion with the cartridge. If a chamber accepted cartridges then what kept the loose blackpower from falling out the rear of the chamber if loaded that way? If the chamber was designed for loose powder then how was a cartridge (with a rim) inserted in the chamber?
Smith held the patent for a bored thru cylinder chamber. That prevented Colt from producing cartridge revolvers till the patent expired and Colt came out with the SAA.

 

[Old Fuff]

Before metallic cartridges came along revolvers could be loaded with paper cartridges. Take a piece of paper similar to cigarette paper. Roll it onto a tapered tube where the mouth is the size of the ball/bullet, using a tapered dowel as a mandrel and glue the edge.

When the glue is dry, use a Q-tip to put a little glue around the front of the tube about 1/8 inch wide and insert the ball or bullet. When everything is dry pour in a charge of powder, twist the back of the tube and tie it off with a thread,

To load, insert the cartridge into the chamber, base first, and ram it home. The paper at the back will rupture, spilling a little powder into the bottom of the chamber. Cap the chamber, and fire. You don’t have to extract/eject any case because the paper will burn up.

Cartridges were carried in cartridge boxes made out of leather with a wood block inside. The block was drilled with holes the size of the cartridge, and protected them from jars and blows.

Muskets were loaded with similar cartridges, but the loading procedure was different. A soldier would rip off the end of the cartridge with his teeth, pour the powder down the barrel, and then ram the remains of the cartridge with the bullet down the barrel.

 

[Majic]

That method worked great in muskets as the powder was poured loosely down the bore. I once read that the method wasn't reliable with revolvers as the paper didn't always tear enough to allow loose powder to reach the back of the chamber. When the cap went off the paper didn't burn fast enough causing the powder to ignite and hangfires resulted. The majority of shooters stayed with the loose powder and roundball load.

 

[jsalcedo]

I read they used nitrate soaked paper in percussion revolvers so ignition would be facilitated and there wouldn't be wads of leftover paper gumming up the works.

 

[Old Fuff]

Paper cartridges for revolvers were made from the early 1850's through the later 1870's and apparently worked O.K. - at least most of the time. If they hadn't they're would be some historical record to that effect. Uncle Sam bought literally tens of thousands during the Civil War.

jsalcedo is correct. I failed to mention that the paper was often soaked in a nitrate solution.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Colt, I believe, patented 3 kinds of "cartridges" for use in their revolvers.

I'm not sure of the years of introduction...

1. Animal intestine (gut) covered with a waterproof glue.

2. Nitrated paper.

3. Powder, no external case, held to the bullet with a coating of collidon.

The gut and colloidon cartridges were pretty waterproof for their day.

The collidon-covered cartridges were also able to take fairly rough handling.

All three types were sold in flat packs of six made out of two pieces of wood. The wood was shaped like the cartridges (almost like a cigar mold), and then wrapped with an outer layer of paper that would bind the wood together.

Original Colt's cartridges in any of these three configurations can, depending on age, type, caliber, and condition, be VERY valuable today.