Why 123 and 120 Bullets in 6.5?

[Lee Q. Loader]

I really can't understand why 120 and 123 grain bullets are made by major bullet makers.
Hornady makes a 120 ELDM and a 123 ELDM. I've loaded and shot both in my Grendel.
I use the same powder charge, OAL, and primer for both.

For my shooting ablity there is no difference between the two. Same velocity and same point of impact at 100, 200 and 300 yards.

Sierra and Nosler also make 120's and 123's of the same bullet. I know of no other caliber where this is true.

My only guess is that 6.5 has become so popular that it's just a marketing thing.

ETA: Both bullets also group the same for me, about .9" at 100 yards.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

I really can't understand why 120 and 123 grain bullets are made by major bullet makers.
Hornady makes a 120 ELDM and a 123 ELDM. I've loaded and shot both in my Grendel.
I use the same powder charge, OAL, and primer for both.

For my shooting ablity there is no difference between the two. Same velocity and same point of impact at 100, 200 and 300 yards.

Sierra and Nosler also make 120's and 123's of the same bullet. I know of no other caliber where this is true.

My only guess is that 6.5 has become so popular that it's just a marketing thing.

ETA: Both bullets also group the same for me, about .9" at 100 yards.

Different ogive profile for loading in a semi auto mag fed platform vs a bolt action which usually has a bit more wiggle room for seating bullets out further perhaps? AR-15 vs Remington 700?Other than that, idk.

 

[jmr40]

The 260 Remington was designed with 120 gr bullets in mind. The barrels are made for that bullet weight. It was envisioned as a whitetail cartridge that would split the difference between 243 and 270. The 120 gr bullets came 1st.

The long-range target shooters started using 260 cases loaded with longer 140-150 gr high BC bullets and found it worked great. The problem was that they had to load the cartridges much longer than 260 OAL and custom guns had to be built with longer magazines, throats, and barrels twisted for the longer bullets.

These guys approached Hornady and asked for a factory cartridge that would duplicate what they were doing with out of spec 260 loads in custom rifles. The 6.5 Creedmoor was their answer.

I'm not as familiar with 6.5 Grendel, but suspect the reasoning behind 120 and 123 is for the same reason 308 is offered in 165 and 167 and 168 gr bullets. The 165's were designed with 165 gr as the target weight for hunting. But target shooters started looking for the most efficient bullet shape and just let bullet weight fall where ever it fell. In 308 the 167 and 168 gr bullets have enough better BC's to shoot a little flatter and faster without giving up anything to 165 gr hunting bullets.

 

[Lee Q. Loader]

The 260 Remington was designed with 120 gr bullets in mind. The barrels are made for that bullet weight. It was envisioned as a whitetail cartridge that would split the difference between 243 and 270. The 120 gr bullets came 1st.

The long-range target shooters started using 260 cases loaded with longer 140-150 gr high BC bullets and found it worked great. The problem was that they had to load the cartridges much longer than 260 OAL and custom guns had to be built with longer magazines, throats, and barrels twisted for the longer bullets.

These guys approached Hornady and asked for a factory cartridge that would duplicate what they were doing with out of spec 260 loads in custom rifles. The 6.5 Creedmoor was their answer.

I'm not as familiar with 6.5 Grendel, but suspect the reasoning behind 120 and 123 is for the same reason 308 is offered in 165 and 167 and 168 gr bullets. The 165's were designed with 165 gr as the target weight for hunting. But target shooters started looking for the most efficient bullet shape and just let bullet weight fall where ever it fell. In 308 the 167 and 168 gr bullets have enough better BC's to shoot a little flatter and faster without giving up anything to 165 gr hunting bullets.

Thank you! Now it makes sense.

 

[Varminterror]

My only guess is that 6.5 has become so popular that it's just a marketing thing.

I can say for certain, “6.5” was not popular when the 123’s were developed for the 6.5 Grendel.

The choice to use 123 grn in Grendel ammo is likely much more dependent upon the long standing market of 123grn 7.62x39 ammo, the parent cartridge to the 6.5 Grendel, AND as a means of segregating the short ogive and low expansion velocity 123’s to be used in STANAG length magazines rather than the longer ogive 120’s which could be used in other, more powerful 6.5/.264” cartridges.

I know of no other caliber where this is true.

I think you’re not paying very close attention, lots of makers offer multiple bullets in the same caliber from the same model line.

All manufacturers offer multiple bullet weights within a given bullet line for a given caliber, and in many cases, we end up with multiple bullets of the same or similar weight within the same model line which are designed for different expansion velocities, or they’ll offer new bullets at a given weight and retain the old bullet in the model line - the 6.5mm bore diameter isn’t unique in this.

A non-exhaustive list of examples:

Hornady makes 6mm bullets in 87, 90, 95, 100, 103, 105, 108, 109, 110, including the same ELD line bullets in 90, 103, 108, and 109grn. They make 22cal V-Max bullets in 35, 40, 50, 53, 55, and 60 grain. They make their Varmint bullet in multiple weights as well. They make their 22 cal ELD’s in 73, 75, 80, 88, and 90 grains. Hornady makes 7mm ELD and ELD-x bullets in 150, 162, 175, and 180 grains. They make multiple 30 cal 150grn SST bullets designed for different expansion velocities… you can pick any of a dozen calibers and find bullet weights which nearly overlap. They also make XTP and XTP-Mag bullets, and XTP-Flat Point bullets which share the same weights but use different designed expansion velocity windows - coincidentally having the same weight, but performing very differently.

Sierra makes 22 cal Matchkings in 52, 53, 69, 77, 80, and 90 grains. They make 6mm SMK’s in 97, 107, and 110. They also make 7mm SMK’s in 168, 175, 180, and 183grn. In 30cal, they offer SMK’s in 150, 155, 168, 169, 175, 200, 210, 220, and 230…. They also make Tipped Matchkings in weights which overlap these weights offered in SMK’s, some of which cannot be used in the same applications (for example, the 77 TMK is longer than the 77SMK and can be a problem in AR mags).

Berger makes 6mm Hybrids in 105 and 109, and makes their VLD’s in 105, 110, and 115. Berger even makes two 200grn 30 cal Hybrids, one just slightly more aerodynamic than another.

Nosler offers their 30 cal Ballistic Tip Hunting bullet in 165 and 168.

 

[Laphroaig]

My only guess is that 6.5 has become so popular that it's just a marketing thing.

Sierra makes 3 close weight SMK HPBT's in the 6.5 140gr. class, 140, 142, and 144. There's more than a little variation in the pricing between the 3. People must like and keep buying one or the other for them to keep all 3 in inventory.

 

[Lee Q. Loader]

I can say for certain, “6.5” was not popular when the 123’s were developed for the 6.5 Grendel.

The choice to use 123 grn in Grendel ammo is likely much more dependent upon the long standing market of 123grn 7.62x39 ammo, the parent cartridge to the 6.5 Grendel, AND as a means of segregating the short ogive and low expansion velocity 123’s to be used in STANAG length magazines rather than the longer ogive 120’s which could be used in other, more powerful 6.5/.264” cartridges.



I think you’re not paying very close attention, lots of makers offer multiple bullets in the same caliber from the same model line.

All manufacturers offer multiple bullet weights within a given bullet line for a given caliber, and in many cases, we end up with multiple bullets of the same or similar weight within the same model line which are designed for different expansion velocities, or they’ll offer new bullets at a given weight and retain the old bullet in the model line - the 6.5mm bore diameter isn’t unique in this.

A non-exhaustive list of examples:

Hornady makes 6mm bullets in 87, 90, 95, 100, 103, 105, 108, 109, 110, including the same ELD line bullets in 90, 103, 108, and 109grn. They make 22cal V-Max bullets in 35, 40, 50, 53, 55, and 60 grain. They make their Varmint bullet in multiple weights as well. They make their 22 cal ELD’s in 73, 75, 80, 88, and 90 grains. Hornady makes 7mm ELD and ELD-x bullets in 150, 162, 175, and 180 grains. They make multiple 30 cal 150grn SST bullets designed for different expansion velocities… you can pick any of a dozen calibers and find bullet weights which nearly overlap. They also make XTP and XTP-Mag bullets, and XTP-Flat Point bullets which share the same weights but use different designed expansion velocity windows - coincidentally having the same weight, but performing very differently.

Sierra makes 22 cal Matchkings in 52, 53, 69, 77, 80, and 90 grains. They make 6mm SMK’s in 97, 107, and 110. They also make 7mm SMK’s in 168, 175, 180, and 183grn. In 30cal, they offer SMK’s in 150, 155, 168, 169, 175, 200, 210, 220, and 230…. They also make Tipped Matchkings in weights which overlap these weights offered in SMK’s, some of which cannot be used in the same applications (for example, the 77 TMK is longer than the 77SMK and can be a problem in AR mags).

Berger makes 6mm Hybrids in 105 and 109, and makes their VLD’s in 105, 110, and 115. Berger even makes two 200grn 30 cal Hybrids, one just slightly more aerodynamic than another.

Nosler offers their 30 cal Ballistic Tip Hunting bullet in 165 and 168.

Wow. I stand corrected. I don't load anything 30 cal, but I load a lot of .223 and I did know about all their offerings.
Thanks for your response.