Why are non-citizen's allowed to own a gun?

[Superpsy]

As a permanent resident I do have some limited voting rights...

MD_Willington: any elaboration? what voting rights do perm. residents have?

 

[HonorsDaddy]

watson...

In Maryland, legal residents are permitted to vote in local elections.

Personally I think this is stupid, and borderline treasonous, but it isn't up to me to make those decisions. I don't live in Maryland.

 

[Superpsy]

In Maryland, legal residents are permitted to vote in local elections.

Personally I think this is stupid, and borderline treasonous, but it isn't up to me to make those decisions. I don't live in Maryland.

wow, I didn't realize that...thanks for the clarification.

 

[Michigander]

So then a citizen who is not properly documented does not possess the inalienable right to defend him/herself?

Sure they do - they just can't legally purchase a firearm in order to do so.

OK, to be more specific then, a person who is not properly documented has no right to keep and bear arms? Or they do have the right to keep and bear arms, just not the right to purchase the arms?

I thought the Bill of Rights pertained to inalienable human rights.

As for me, I'm here legally, pay my taxes, tolls, etc, so I want the benefits of whatever I'm allowed under current law - firearms being one of them.

So you're allowed the privilege to purchase firearms, whereas a person who is not legally documented is not afforded the same privilege? Therefore it is neither your right nor the right of a person who is not legally documented.

 

[MD_Willington]

RE Voting

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=4f719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

Voting
One of the most important privileges of democracy in the United States of America is the right to participate in choosing elected officials through voting.

As a Permanent Resident you can only vote in local and state elections that do not require you to be a US citizen.

It is very important that you do not vote in national, state or local elections that require a voter to be a US citizen when you are not a US citizen.

There are criminal penalties for voting when you are not a US citizen and it is a requirement for voting. You can be removed (deported) from the US if you vote in elections limited to US citizens.

So before I run out and vote, I have to ask if the vote requires me to be a citizen...


18 U.S.C. section 922(d)(5) covers illegal aliens

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—
(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) is a fugitive from justice;
(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));

 

[Mr. James]

As for me, I'm here legally, pay my taxes, tolls, etc, so I want the benefits of whatever I'm allowed under current law - firearms being one of them.

Rights, most especially those enumerated in the Constitution, are not "bennies" you get for being a good tax-paying drone. They are rights which inhere by virtue of your being human. I insist they are, in fact, given to you by your Creator, a beneficent God, but for purposes of this board, we can just leave it as "they're yours." Your rights of free association, speech, to keep and bear arms, et&. are not lagniappes dispensed by our betters. In fact, many of our betters (better than me, at least) gave all to secure those rights from the insatiable grasping of governments.

Of course, I speak not in real-world terms of what is (political jurisdictions can abrogate rights pretty much at the sufferance of the populace), but in terms of the ideals which animated our founders.

 

[DarthBubba]

Legal Resident Aliens 2A Rights

Wow,
Go away for a little while and the whole world goes wacky.
I am all for the right of every person in the United States legally (Resident Aliens included),to defend themselves. That being said I live in an Overrun border state and have land further to the south and can tell you that a lot of the Illegal immigrant crowd wants a gun in order for them to help themselves to my and probably your stuff more easily. I have caught and broken up several migrant camps of illegally passing through types on my property and removed from their grubby paws both weapons and my property so I have mixed feelings on this issue. That is not to say That they are all like that but again the property in question is close to a major drug corridor. I have received little help from From the Fed. LEO types in keeping them at bay and question the Logic of ascribing 2A Rights to any Tomas, Ricardo, or Hector that Saunters across the Rio Grande any time he feels like it and helps himself to my southern homes furnishings and electronics. (Note I no longer Keep firearms at that location due to the high number of Thefts and the fact that I had to disarm some of said persons of my own weapons once). In Answer to the question I am all for the right of any man to defend his and his families life liberty and property. But if you break the law in getting here thinking that is your right to violate my rights and my property then I feel that you are somewhat less than human and deserve no human rights considerations.

DarthBubba

 

[givo08]

Regardless of other rights, the right to self defense is a human right, in my opinion. Doesn't matter what nationality you are...if you're here legally you should be allowed to own and protect yourself with a firearm.

Put yourself in this situation:

Lets say your wife is from England and went to college here. You marry her and she is going through the tedious process of getting her citizenship (takes several years now with how screwed up the system is). A violent rapist is waiting for her at her car one night...should she not be allowed to have a handgun because she isn't a citizen?

 

[AndyC]

OK, to be more specific then, a person who is not properly documented has no right to keep and bear arms? Or they do have the right to keep and bear arms, just not the right to purchase the arms?

I thought the Bill of Rights pertained to inalienable human rights.

I'm telling you how it is - not necessarily how I think it should be.

As for me, I'm here legally, pay my taxes, tolls, etc, so I want the benefits of whatever I'm allowed under current law - firearms being one of them.

So you're allowed the privilege to purchase firearms, whereas a person who is not legally documented is not afforded the same privilege? Therefore it is neither your right nor the right of a person who is not legally documented.

Nor is it yours, friend - not any more. Last handgun you purchased at a store, did you go through the NICS check? Difference between me and an illegal is I'm legally allowed firearms - and the only similarity I have to them is that I was born in a different country to the US. Call it a privilege if you like - doesn't matter to me, because as far as I'm concerned, we're all in the same boat.

 

[AndyC]

As for me, I'm here legally, pay my taxes, tolls, etc, so I want the benefits of whatever I'm allowed under current law - firearms being one of them.

Rights, most especially those enumerated in the Constitution, are not "bennies" you get for being a good tax-paying drone. They are rights which inhere by virtue of your being human. I insist they are, in fact, given to you by your Creator, a beneficent God, but for purposes of this board, we can just leave it as "they're yours." Your rights of free association, speech, to keep and bear arms, et&. are not lagniappes dispensed by our betters. In fact, many of our betters (better than me, at least) gave all to secure those rights from the insatiable grasping of governments.

Of course, I speak not in real-world terms of what is (political jurisdictions can abrogate rights pretty much at the sufferance of the populace), but in terms of the ideals which animated our founders.

And I agree absolutely - rights are not something that should be doled out like candy in return for obedience.

However, I would argue that the RKBA is no longer seen by government as a right, but as a privilege. That to me is the biggest part of the RKBA fight right there.

The question of whether illegal aliens should have firearms - I'm going to bow out of that tar-baby as I have work to do.

 

[Mr. James]

10-4, AndyC.

 

[MikeH]

In Maryland, legal residents are permitted to vote in local elections.

MD Constitution still bans non-citizens from voting in state elections, but allows municipalities to decide for their own local elections. So far, only 6 towns allow non-citizens to vote.

 

[everallm]

Just to clarify the frustration of the whole vote issue as a PRA.

When you get your Green Card (which is actually nasty shade of beige.... you get a nice little packet of info from the Federal Government about various rights and pre-requisites you now have. I might add they conspicuously don't say you can now avail yourself of 2A.

One part says very pointedly that as a PRA the whole issue of voting and participation in the democratic process is highly important (which it is) and you have the right to vote in any area that does not impact the national characteristic.

So no vote for President, Congress and Senate but yes to everything else EXCEPT where prohibited.

So I say to myself, no worries all I really want to do as this point is vote for my local mayor and state reps. I go to town hall to register and am told NO.

"But why, Uncle Sam says I'm good to go"
"I don't know but you can't"

Being the shy and retiring chap I am I go to their supervisor, who passes me to the town clerk, who passes me to the town legal department, who passes me to the County Board of Electors.

From here I eventually end up with the Assistant DA for electoral affairs for the fair state of New Jersey.

"Well.....?"
"Ah, it seems that it's in the State Constitution"
"Why....?"
"Er, it just is, looks like it was copied from somewhere else at some point"
"Can it be changed"
"Well, if you contribute I'm sure some state senator will be able to look at it"
"Can't, that really is illegal, even for NJ...you do know that....don't you? "
"..............."
"Well, seeing as one of the primary kick off for getting rid of us Brits in the olden days was No Taxation Without Representation, since I can't vote in my state, what good reason is there for me to pay my state taxes?"
".............Sorry, you can't vote because......."

One more of the reasons I be getting my citizenship after jumping through at least another 5 years of hoops......

 

[Autolycus]

Illegal immigrants should have the same right to own a gun as everyone else. If you can make it a right only for some that means the Bill of Rights is not applicalbe as those rights are inalienable to all people. But hey don't let the Bill of Rights stop racism.

Why not just allow anyone whom is not in jail to own a firearm?

 

[Autolycus]

Did anyone else mention the fact that the Founding Fathers were themselves illegal immigrants? I mean they didnt get permission from the people who owned it, and instead murdered indians by the thousand if not ten thousand.

 

[CWL]

You guys have to remember back when there were only 13 Colonies. Who was it that threw the Brits out? Citizens?

Until the Declaration of Independence, there were NO citizens of the USA, yet it was thru the possession of firearms by non-citizens that led to final victory, freedom and birth of this nation.

 

[Art Eatman]

Great philosophical/political discussion, but it's not a discussion of pertinent law.

Art