Why no P232 in 9mm

[Alan Fud]

While we're wishing for things, I'd like to see a PPK in 9mm. If a Rohrbaugh R9 can be made in 9mm and it's smaller than a PPK ...

... then there is no reason why a PPK can't be made in 9mm.

 

[wardog]

Yes, Yes, details, details.

 

[ABBOBERG]

Since I have not finished the patent yet, anything I publicly reveal about how it works will cause the clock to start ticking for a 1-year deadline of patent filing. But I can tell you that it is double-action only with smooth constant trigger force (7 lb) until hammer drop, gas-delay action with fixed barrel, 7+1 capacity. Size: 5.63" overall length, 4.2" high, .94" thick. Weight 17.5 oz. Some ballistics: 323 fpe with 147gr Fed Hydrashock (289 for Sig p226, 298 for Beretta 92FS, 252 Kahr PM9), 472 fpe with Hirtenberger +P+ (475 for Sig p226, 375 for Kahr PM9).

 

[Alan Fud]

Okay, you got me interested. Sounds like it's the size of a Colt Pocket Nine.

 

[Zen21Tao]

My normal daily CCW is a .40 S&W Sig P239 IWB BUT for pocket power I also have an AMT .45 Backup. Quite heavy for a pocket gun but you get 5+1 rounds of .45 ACP.

 

[Marko Kloos]

then there is no reason why a PPK can't be made in 9mm.

Because the PPK is a fixed-barrel blowback design, while the Rohrbaugh is a Browning-style short recoil tilt barrel design. In order to have the PPK use the same operating principle, you'd need to redesign the entire gun to the point where it wouldn't be PPK-sized anymore.

The Rohrbaugh is neat, but shoehorning the 9mmx19 into such a small platform comes with severe limitations on the gun...there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. The Rohrbaugh can't use +P or +P+ ammo, and the life of the recoil spring is only a few hundred rounds.

 

[Hawk]

The Rohrbaugh was also at the center of pretty entertaining lint storm between Gun-Tests and the maker. I don't recall the details.

There are quirks. TANSTAAFL.

Still wouldn't mind having one myself.

 

[Alan Fud]

I've been reading GunTests for nearly a decade and while their publication is informative, I don't always agree with their conclusions.

 

[DesertFox01]

well why cant they make a PPK type pistol with a rotary locking action in
9x19? walther has a PPK in 9mm makarov (9x18)

 

[ABBOBERG]

It would have to be Beretta, since they hold the patent, which expires next year. Coincidentally, they discontinuing the Cougar.

 

[Robert J McElwain]

I've got a P232 and, given the weight of the gun, .380 is about as much as can be fired a lot without taking all the fun out of it.

I also, own a Kel Tec .380, which is considerably lighter than the P 232 and, although it's reliable for what it's intended for, it's not a fun gun to shoot, simply because the felt recoil just isn't that pleasant. Kel Tec also makes a 9mm pistol in super-small, which I've never fired, and I've got to believe that it, like the .380, is only good for saving your life but not much fun at the range.

OTOH, I also have a SIG 239 which has the weight to handle 9mm very comfortably. I can shoot it all day, and not tire of the recoil. So there are always compromises. But if I'm going to shoot 9mm or .45 ACP, I want enough weight to the gun to deal with it.

Bob

 

[wrangler5]

I have Kel Tecs in both 380 and 9mm (P11) and neither one is a real joy to shoot much. The 9mm is a double stack, though, with a much wider grip, so the recoil is spread over a much wider piece of your hand. As between the two, the 9mm is more pleasant to shoot. Not as nice as my Browning Hi Power but not really all that bad, at least for a few dozen rounds. I'm considering getting a finger extension baseplate for the magazine, which gives a place for the little finger, and which on other short guns is said to make a big difference in the feel and controllability.

Something to remember about a 9x19 PPK project is that the 9mm has an overall length spec nearly 0.2 inches longer than the 380. This is a non-trivial dimensional difference in a gun design that probably has already had all the excess space squeezed out of it. Just deepening the grip to accommodate a deeper magazine would change both the length of pull and the overall feel, and it wouldn't be a PPK any more

Everything is a compromise.

 

[otomik]

It would have to be Beretta, since they hold the patent, which expires next year. Coincidentally, they discontinuing the Cougar.

Beretta doesn't hold the patent, there have been many rotating barrel action pistols made by other manufacturers.
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg89-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg64-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg126-e.htm

then there's the Savage .45, the Obregon .45, The Colt All American 2000, etc...

And Beretta is moving production of the Cougar to another company in Beretta Holdings, they are not discontinuing it in any permanent sense but there will be a gap in production as it moves to factories in Turkey and future Cougars probably won't have "Beretta" on the slide.

walther has a PPK in 9mm makarov (9x18)

I believe you're mistaken, maybe you mean the Walter PP Super in 9x18mm Police or Ultra.

 

[ABBOBERG]

I have a printed copy of the Beretta rotating barrel patent at home, I will have to look it up. I have seen several issued gun patents where there was prior art on the same devices - it just shows sloppy patent searching. Normally this results in an invalid patent.

 

[otomik]

Beretta Cougar is one of the best rotating barrel pistols, maybe the patent was some refinement of it. I think I'll go look up opinions on the Mauser M2.

 

[DesertFox01]

I believe you're mistaken, maybe you mean the Walter PP Super in 9x18mm Police or Ultra.

yeah its a PP my bad.
I was at a gunshot in redding Ca called jones fort they had a ppk style pistol in 9x19