Why So Few Tac-Light/Laser Combos Used By Law Enforcement?

[Randomizer]

Greetings,

Let me start by saying that I'm admittedly brand new to optics of any kind on handguns. However, I've recently purchased and installed a couple of different rail-mounted optic types for semi-autos, both of which are tac-light/laser combos, and I'm just curious . . . why does it appear that most law enforcement officials opt for a dedicated tac-light only, versus a tac-light/laser combo? This just seems kinda puzzling to me, and I'm hoping some law enforcement types might just chime in here.

Pricing between the two types of devices doesn't really seem to vary too much, and there are certainly tac-light/laser combos out there with perfectly bright (400+ lumens) of light, some that can even be charged via USB port rather than constantly changing batteries, so wouldn't you think the added laser would be a desirable feature for most? What am I missing here?

Many thanx!

 

[Shawn Dodson]

1) Not many, if any, duty holsters are available for those kinds of units.

2) Adding extra features requires additional decision making and manipulations under stress, which can cause task saturation that increases the risk of an ND.

 

[Old Dog]

The efficacy of lasers, particularly on handguns, has never been established. You will find any number of proponents for lasers, yet you will see far fewer actually using them in real life. In a high-stress environment, with rapidly evolving circumstances, lots of physical movement, a little red or green dot bouncing around is not an effective aid to accurate shooting. WMLs, on the other hand, can be employed effectively in lowlight and darkness.

I am not speaking to use of equipment such as the ATPIAL/PEQ-15 as used by the military and tactical teams. But lasers are best used as target illuminators and don't create a significant advantage to the average citizen gun-owner/concealed-carrier or patrol officer when mounted on handguns.

 

[trackskippy]

I always found the lasers to be more of a distraction than a help. You waste valuable time and focus looking for that silly dot when you should be shooting.

The light I like.

 

[CapnMac]

As a guess the municipality's Risk Management is not going to be in favor of anything that exposes RM to lawsuits for eyesight injury alleged to be from laser use.

There's the practical side that a laser on a handgun will seem to wander all over the place, and only get worse under stress. The "pivot" point is back in your wrist, so the cone of possible dot impingement increases with every tiny movement. It's only natural, to "chase" the dot, too. Which can affect situational awareness. None of which is definitive, but does reflect part of why there's debate on efficacy.

 

[lee n. field]

Greetings,

Let me start by saying that I'm admittedly brand new to optics of any kind on handguns. However, I've recently purchased and installed a couple of different rail-mounted optic types for semi-autos, both of which are tac-light/laser combos, and I'm just curious . . . why does it appear that most law enforcement officials opt for a dedicated tac-light only, versus a tac-light/laser combo?

Lasers on pistols do seem to be declining in popularity. At least if you believe Internet buzz. YMMV.

I suspect the actual utility of pistol mounted lasers turns out to be less than we used to think, especially manually activated rail mounted type you're talking about here.

 

[lee n. field]

The efficacy of lasers, particularly on handguns, has never been established. ... In a high-stress environment, with rapidly evolving circumstances, lots of physical movement, a little red or green dot bouncing around is not an effective aid to accurate shooting.

There's the practical side that a laser on a handgun will seem to wander all over the place, and only get worse under stress.

Except, it's not "the laser jumping around", it's the laser accurately reflecting how the user is not holding the gun steady. Without the laser, he's still doing that.

 

[trackskippy]

Without the laser, his focus is on the target, and not what the dot is doing.

The dot is like a drug that steals the brain from its task.

Grasshopper

 

[Rexster]

Many PDs prohibit lasers, on duty handguns. One significant reason is that if multiple officers are on a scene, and several are lasering a bad actor, at the same time, well, which dot belongs to whose pistol? I worked for a big-city PD, for 33+ years, and that is the main reason why we were not allowed to use lasers on our duty firearms.

Notably, our issued, mandated Tasers used lasers, which would add the complication of which dots were being emitted by which types of weapons.

 

[Riomouse911]

At one agency I worked for we had them on some SWAT rifles, but not on handguns. It was tough enough to get a lot of the guys trained and proficient with handguns without adding another layer to the training and skill retention.

(In all honesty, I can’t recall anyone ever asking for lasers for handguns in all the years I was head rangemaster.) Todays ask is Red Dots. I can see many agencies supplying RDS on sidearms in the near future.

Stay safe.

 

[IlikeSA]

Red dots are on the upswing. I run neither a RDS, light, or laser on any of my pistols, at work or home, with the exception of a snub revolver. My duty belt is heavy enough as is, and I am looking for ways to shave weight within policy. Others go the opposite way, with one of my colleagues running a laser, light, and RDS on a Glock 47. Another carries 5 mags on the belt and a backup gun in a pocket. Since the gun(s) and accessories are on us, to each his own as long as it meets the minimum requirements in policy at my location. Each agency has its own policy and politics plays into the decision making, not necessarily practicality.

I would think the RDS is superior to the laser in terms of all weather, all conditions sighting, though there is something to be said for point shooting with a laser if I had to choose.

 

[Old Dog]

Except, it's not "the laser jumping around", it's the laser accurately reflecting how the user is not holding the gun steady. Without the laser, he's still doing that

The point is, the laser is not an effective aiming device. I was an agency firearms instructor for some 17 years, have engaged in a bit of experimentation with different optics and accessories, so this might be only my opinion, but it's what I believe.

Now, I've just noticed that the OP asked the same question on another (manufacturer specific) forum, different username.

Not that there's anything wrong with this. Different forums sometimes can garner different responses.

l did note that he got some very good responses on the other forum.

Have I mentioned that I feel that lasers on a handgun are essentially useless?

 

[chicharrones]

Many PDs prohibit lasers, on duty handguns. One significant reason is that if multiple officers are on a scene, and several are lasering a bad actor, at the same time, well, which dot belongs to whose pistol? I worked for a big-city PD, for 33+ years, and that is the main reason why we were not allowed to use lasers on our duty firearms.

Notably, our issued, mandated Tasers used lasers, which would add the complication of which dots were being emitted by which types of weapons.

Best reason I've ever heard of. Makes total sense.

 

[herrwalther]

I worked with a lot of law enforcement in the past 20 ish years.Simplicity on a duty gun is paramount to many departments. Many duty guns don't have safeties and only a few are switching to optical sights. There are two reasons duty guns are simple: 1) Less to go wrong/More instinctual in a defensive encounter. You don't want to hit the switch you think is your light but turn on the laser, and now you are dead. And 2 (much more likely) duty guns with light only is cheaper than a laser/light combo. Bean counters are everywhere, especially in police departments.

Of note, I was a proponent of using lasers as an aiming device before slide optics became popular. With optics, many of the advantages then of a laser are negated in lieu of an optic. So I ditched mine almost entirely.

 

[jmr40]

I'm starting to see quite a few carrying weapons with mounted lights.

 

[herrwalther]

Lights yes. But the Laser/light combo isn't nearly as popular. I do not know of any officers that use one. Departments in my area are just starting to realize the benefits of red dot optics on duty handguns. And the added cost of a duty holster to fit it.

 

[dogtown tom]

Lasers on pistols do seem to be declining in popularity.....

Ten years ago, I would get 2-3 transfers a week of pistols equipped with a laser.
Nowadays, I'll go months without seeing one.

 

[chicharrones]

Ten years ago, I would get 2-3 transfers a week of pistols equipped with a laser.
Nowadays, I'll go months without seeing one.

Yep. The pistol mounted red dot has taken over.

 

[dogtown tom]

Yep. The pistol mounted red dot has taken over.

Not as a factory included item.
That's the difference. When lasers were all the rage, Ruger, S&W, and others included it in the box with a new gun. (remember when S&W bought Crimson Trace?)

That's pretty rare with red dots.

 

[trackskippy]

The biggest advantage to the red dot over the laser is, you always know where to look for the dot.

That, and you dont get seasick looking at a dot (if and when you do find it) that looks like Kathern Hepburn is holding it.

 

[a2x4bbl]

I would hope our law enforcement would have the best equipment , however, police departments have a budget and that usually involves a committee. Along with the committee comes all the politics that comes with the committee. There’s usually a bean counter type person , usually one person who has no business being on the committee but always agrees with someone else on the committee who is way up high on the totem pole . Usually a couple people who are thinking about future promotions and agree with everything the person who is highest on the totem pole says . Then of course, the easiest action is no action. The benefit of anything is probably the smallest consideration. Sorry , but somebody had to say it.

 

[WrongHanded]

Having recently acquired a TLR-8A to go on a new G29....



....I can say the following:

The light is a light. A very nice thing to have in dark situations. It can cause the effect of silhouetting the sights, which means they can be seen even though they are not tritium. This is all old news to anyone who uses a weapon mounted light.

But having a red laser dot in the middle of the light beam, which confirms POA, is really nice. It only detracts from focus on the sights if the user chooses this. With both eyes open, I see the sights with my dominant eye and the dot with my non-dominant eye, out to 15 yards. At 15 yards they intersect and I can see the dot over the irons (polymers). As the dot is below the front sight by 2.75", and intersects at 15 yards, its POA is 2.75" above the sightline at 30 yards. I'd say 3" high or low out to 30 yards is good enough for most defensive situations.

Now the laser is next to useless in broad daylight, and that's just the truth. In my opinion, It should not be relied upon as a primary aiming device. But as long as you're going to have a taclight, you might as well have a laser dot in the middle of it. It's very easy to zero well enough for typical defensive pistol shooting. Just zero it to POA with the sights, at whatever distance seems reasonable to you. It's easy to verify that its still zeroed by aiming at that distance and looking for the dot. And it can be used as a dry fire tool. What's not to like?

 

[Randomizer]

Having recently acquired a TLR-8A to go on a new G29....

View attachment 1145150

....I can say the following:

The light is a light. A very nice thing to have in dark situations. It can cause the effect of silhouetting the sights, which means they can be seen even though they are not tritium. This is all old news to anyone who uses a weapon mounted light.

But having a red laser dot in the middle of the light beam, which confirms POA, is really nice. It only detracts from focus on the sights if the user chooses this. With both eyes open, I see the sights with my dominant eye and the dot with my non-dominant eye, out to 15 yards. At 15 yards they intersect and I can see the dot over the irons (polymers). As the dot is below the front sight by 2.75", and intersects at 15 yards, its POA is 2.75" above the sightline at 30 yards. I'd say 3" high or low out to 30 yards is good enough for most defensive situations.

Now the laser is next to useless in broad daylight, and that's just the truth. In my opinion, It should not be relied upon as a primary aiming device. But as long as you're going to have a taclight, you might as well have a laser dot in the middle of it. It's very easy to zero well enough for typical defensive pistol shooting. Just zero it to POA with the sights, at whatever distance seems reasonable to you. It's easy to verify that its still zeroed by aiming at that distance and looking for the dot. And it can be used as a dry fire tool. What's not to like?

I cannot possibly explain this, because I've had immediate notification by e-mail as my preference here since the day I first posted this thread, but I just now received my very first notification of a response to this thread. Very, very strange, especially since that was almost a month ago with nearly two dozen responses since! Just crazy!

Anyway, I am the OP, and yes, I did indeed post this same question on the SIG Sauer Forum within hours of posting this one, because I was getting no responses here at THR. Safe to say, I am most grateful to all who have responded here, and equally grateful to those who responded on the SIG forum.

Now, regarding the topic itself, there is a clear and resounding consensus on both boards, that lasers are essentially a pointless waste of money, with far more disadvantages than advantages, and I believe I've made it clear earlier that I am not a police officer or involved in active law enforcement. I am simply a civilian homeowner, interested in personal protection, and my primary carry is a SIG p226 DA/SA Legion, now equipped with a Viridian X5L-Gen 3 light/laser combo, and while I completely understand the many of reasons cited here for not using lasers, including the training, cost and other limitations, I can say that for my own unique and arguably narrow application or purposes, I am exceedingly happy with the added functionality of the laser for nighttime use under 35-40 yards. I've zero'd mine with the iron sights at 30-yards, using my dedicated brand and type of ammo, and in my view, it is superior to the light alone, but then in fairness, my use (at least for now, thank God!), has been restricted to the range alone, where no one is shooting back at me!

Anyway, thanks to all who have participated and contributed here, and my sincere apologies for my delay in responding.

P.S. - I should also add that I've had no trouble whatsoever in securing very nice and perfectly suitable holsters for my p226 (with light/laser), in both leather and Kydex.