Wife - 1st Handgun Suggestions

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what I did wrong.

This afternoon

We went out and shot some paper plate targets You wheel gun folks are probably onto something. Autos are not the best choice for everyone.

First we went over gun handling and general operation, this is not the first time we've done this so I probably didn't spend as much time as I should have there.

She liked the .22lr conversion on my Kimber. We shot that until she was hitting the target consistently. We then moved up to the 9mm XDsc. It actually startled her and she did not like the recoil at all. We went back to the .22lr for a while but she would not give the 9mm XD another chance ..... instead she opted to try to the Kimber in to .45 mode. So I took several mags and put one .45 round in each. We worked on loading , firing and reloading for a while and moved up to a full mag. She was not doing to badly at 20 feet with the 5" .45 and I'm sure she'll be back for more.:D

Sitting here now I realize we covered a lot of ground for one afternoon and evening and if I could do it over I would not have moved her up from the .22 for a few days.
 
starting off...

Ideally, I believe that everyone really should start off with revolvers, not just women. This is especially true if a person is not going to shoot a lot. If any person wants an autoloader, then they will need to invest a considerable amount of time and money to master it. If a novice shooter doesn't invest the time to master their weapon, then an autoloading pistol could be more trouble than its worth.

Revolvers are more reliable, more shootable (medium framed, stainless or blued guns), and more flexible than autoloaders. With one .357 magnum revolver, you can have ballistic overlap with just about every defense caliber round that is currently used. Out of the same gun, you could use ammo that is about as tame as a .32 and ammo that is about as nasty as a .41 mag or even a "weak" .44 mag. I don't understand why more people don't own at least one revolver. The one drawback with revolvers is capacity, but unless you are a cop or a soldier, you probably will never need more than six rounds.

I agree with starting her off with the .22lr, but after that, I would go with either a GP100 or smith 686p (unless she wants to cc). If she insists on an autoloader, I'd recommend a glock 19 or an XD.
 
I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would recommend a .357 for anyone just getting into guns, male or female.
Not that the .357 is a punishing gun to shoot recoil wise, but the report and muzzle flash is impressive for lack of a better term, even for the large alpha males of our species.

For anyone who has just experienced firearms for the first time, it is imperative that they have a positive introductory experience. This is the time where their bias for or against handguns, or firearms in general, will probably take place.

To Tron 646, Glocks are great weapons, the very first automatic I owned was a Glock 21 in .45acp. If you learn on the Glock and completely understand it's operation it's a safe gun, it's a safe gun anyway. I take it the class is for CCW, so the G26 would fit that bill nicely. Some just can't understand that there's alot of us out there that just can't buy "one of each" to learn on then buy the "ultimate" SD handgun when we get proficient. If she's already shot the 9mm and is comfortable and accurate with it, then that's the one.

But I carry mine condition 3, which is empty chamber, full magazine and it takes a fraction of a second to chamber a round and be ready to go. I just don't like walking/running around with a round in the chamber with any weapon unless I'm on the hunt and am pursuing my target and know with a pretty good certainty that I will engage shortly.

Let me also say, regarding guns for your significant others, if they have their mind made up and they feel comfortable with their choice, and it's a viable choice, don't dissuade them. It will come back to haunt you :)
The 9mm is a great caliber and the Glock is a great firearm, the G26 would be a great choice.
 
I started on a Glock 26. Nobody told me I was too mechanically inept to learn to run a semi-auto, too stupid to keep my finger off the trigger, or too weak to learn to work the slide. Not knowing that just because I was female I was probably all those things, I did just fine with it and loved it from the beginning.

I've since learned to love shooting revolvers, but to this day, thousands and thousands of rounds into it, my trigger finger struggles with the heavy DA trigger pull; the main joint swells up & quits working about 50 rounds in. Bummer. Sure am glad nobody told me that revolvers were "easier" for a new shooter! If I'd started with one, discovered how difficult it was for me, and then got told it was "easier" than other guns ... well, if I'd believed that old canard, I wouldn't have gotten into shooting at all. If this is "easy," give me difficult! But as I said, I've made my peace with revolvers now, and enjoy them even though I cannot shoot them nearly as much as I'd like.

Having taught a whole bunch of newbies to shoot and having observed many many more while they were learning from other good instructors, I do have to observe that anyone who puts a lightweight snubby into the hands of a beginner does her no favors. Lightweight snubbies are not beginners' guns! Miniscule sights, short sight radius, heavy difficult trigger pull, nasty sharp recoil -- it's like they're the poster child for new-shooter failure. I don't tell my students that of course. I tell them I'm glad they're there, and I teach them to shoot as best I can ... while inside I just mourn for them, because someone sent them to me with the single most inappropriate-for-beginners handgun on the market, stunting their shooting growth and just about destroying their potential for having fun while learning to shoot.

If someone wants to learn on a centerfire revolver, hand her something relatively large and relatively heavy, with good sights and a smooth trigger. Something like the Ruger GP-101 with compact grips installed will usually fit even smaller hands, and fits the bill nicely.

If she wants to learn on a centerfire semi-auto, respect her choices rather than arguing with her. Ask yourself, What gun did you learn on? Would you have been happy or learned to love shooting if someone had vetoed your gun choices from the outset? Why should she be any different!? Glocks and XDs are the simplest semi-autos for learning on -- a G19 or a subcompact XD9 makes a good choice. If she wants to learn on a 1911, a short trigger makes them much friendlier for average-sized female hands, especially in commander sized models.

If she wants to learn on a .22 caliber handgun, nobody's ever beat the Ruger Mark II/III series for a decent semi-auto on which to learn.

Final note: guys, you're probably not the best ones to teach your wives & girlfriends how to shoot. There's a really huge minefield there that most folks don't notice until they've stepped in it. So don't do it! Hire a good firearms instructor for that, and save your together time to just enjoy hanging out together on the range.

pax
 
Definately let her choose after shooting some. My wife could not rack the slide on my M&P9 - I had to rack it for her when she first shot it. Of course, once she started shooting, she shot better than me, but that's a different story. :scrutiny:
 
.357 magnum

Do you own a medium-framed stainless or a blued steel .357 mangnum revolver? Have you ever even shot one before? I am not talking about firing one of those ultra light snubbies, I'm talking about a medium framed steel revolver. I agree that firing .357 magnum out of an ultra light snubby can be pretty brutal, but I'm **not** talking about getting one of these guns.

The recoil with .38 special out of a 41 oz stainless steel gun is **very, very** light. A 41 oz .357 magnum revovler loaded with 125 grain .38 special will have a lighter recoil than just about any 9mm autoloader on the market (except for maybe some of the heavier all stainless models). If you don't believe me, rent a GP100 or a 686 and find out for yourself. I don't shoot semi autos that often, but I've rented and shot at least 20 or so different autoloader makes and models before settling on a .357 revolver.

I would also argue that lighter .357 magnum loads out of a 41 oz gun are less "brutal" than firing a .40 smith and wesson out of a polymer pistol (which I've done with glocks and HKs).

I personally don't even shoot a lot of magnum loads out of my .357 magnum. I really don't see the point as high pressure .38 special loads are more than adequate stoppers. Just because you have .357 magnum revolver, it doesn't mean that you have to shoot the more powerful loads, ever. The advantage of getting a .357 magnum revolver over a .38 special revolver is the added weight (which reduces recoil). The beauty of the .357 magnum is that you can use one gun to learn to deal with light recoil loads, and you can use the same gun to learn to get used to the "hotter" ammo as well. It truly is the best platform for anyone (male or female) to learn on.
 
.357 magnum

Do you own a medium-framed stainless or a blued steel .357 mangnum revolver? Have you ever even shot one before? I am not talking about firing one of those ultra light snubbies, I'm talking about a medium framed steel revolver. I agree that firing .357 magnum out of an ultra light snubby can be pretty brutal, but I'm **not** talking about getting one of these guns.

The recoil with .38 special out of a 41 oz stainless steel gun is **very, very** light. A 41 oz .357 magnum revovler loaded with 125 grain .38 special will have a lighter recoil than just about any 9mm autoloader on the market (except for maybe some of the heavier all stainless models). If you don't believe me, rent a GP100 or a 686 and find out for yourself. I don't shoot semi autos that often, but I've rented and shot at least 20 or so different autoloader makes and models before settling on a .357 revolver.

I would also argue that lighter .357 magnum loads out of a 41 oz gun are less "brutal" than firing a .40 smith and wesson out of a polymer pistol (which I've done with glocks and HKs).

I personally don't even shoot a lot of magnum loads out of my .357 magnum. I really don't see the point as high pressure .38 special loads are more than adequate stoppers. Just because you have .357 magnum revolver, it doesn't mean that you have to shoot the more powerful loads, ever. The advantage of getting a .357 magnum revolver over a .38 special revolver is the added weight (which reduces recoil). The beauty of the .357 magnum is that you can use one gun to learn to deal with light recoil loads, and you can use the same gun to learn to get used to the "hotter" ammo as well. It truly is the best platform for anyone (male or female) to learn on.
 
Oh, by the way, I was not directing my last post at PAX.
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Fish ~

I certainly hope not ... because, you know, I did say:
pax said:
If someone wants to learn on a centerfire revolver, hand her something relatively large and relatively heavy, with good sights and a smooth trigger. Something like the Ruger GP-101 with compact grips installed will usually fit even smaller hands, and fits the bill nicely.
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:D

Only place I take issue with your post is your contention that "It truly is the best platform for anyone (male or female) to learn on." Not to be rude, but that's wrong. Really, really wrong.

Here's why:

There is NO single, "best" platform for every person. There isn't even a "best" platform for all southerners, all non-smokers, all 50-year-old men, all teenage girls, or all short left-handed redheads. Why not? Well, to state the obvious, people are not all the same. What one person loves, another will despise. What fits one person's hands will be too large or too small or too awkwardly-angled for the next. The caliber that's absolutely perfect for your purposes will be too wimpy or too brutal for someone else. And on and on and on.

So it's downright silly to be picking out guns for other people, absent their input. You can't try on shoes for your kids, you cannot pick out a pair of jeans that ideally fits your wife's curves, and you cannot predictably choose a gun perfectly suited to someone else's hands and personal tastes. Apart from wild luck, it's just not going to happen. And stating that one gun is perfect for every new shooter is kind of like deciding that every person you meet really would be best off wearing size 9 logging boots, regardless of the actual size of their feet and what they do for a living.

Best you can do for a beginner is to help them pick out a gun in a style they like -- something which is reliable and has mild recoil, a relatively simple manual of arms, a decent trigger and easily-visible sights. Guns that fit this basic description come in both semi-auto and revolver forms. Guns that do not fit this basic description also come in both major types. (Don't get me started on inappropriate guns, we'd be here all day & some fanboys would definitely be annoyed with me.) When it comes down to it, there are a lot of really decent guns for beginners.

Learn to love diversity. The world is full of it!

;)

pax
 
Good post...

I still think that the revolver is a better platforms for introducing beginners. I do, however, agree with the general spirit of your comments.
 
Allow me add my 2 cents.

I signed my wife up for a shooting course at the local range. I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. principles so I sent her with my plain vanilla S&W mod 10. When she came back she wanted to know why she had to reload after 6 shots and the other women didn't.:rolleyes: To make a long story short, she's taken over my SIG 228 and loves it. Now I have to replace that SIG. I'm thinking GSR! :D

I fully agree with the prior posters not to limit your lady to a "little girl" gun. It should be her pick.

Thanks,
Tim
 
I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would recommend a .357 for anyone just getting into guns, male or female.
Not that the .357 is a punishing gun to shoot recoil wise, but the report and muzzle flash is impressive for lack of a better term, even for the large alpha males of our species.
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Because you can shoot .38s out of a .357. You teach with .38s and move up to more bang with the .357.
 
I find it interesting that two posters in this thread (UnTainted and El_Cyclone) both noted that their wives love the SIG P-228. My wife recently discovered my beloved 228 (the only non-.45 in my carry repertoire) and ... it now seems to be hers.

Many recommendations for the .357 wheelgun platform, but in my experience, a lot of females new to shooting really do take to a mid-size or compact 9mm, such as the SIG 228/229, CZ-75C/P01. As noted, though, it's always best to have any new shooters, regardless of gender, try out as many different platforms as possible to find their preferred "fit."
 
My wife loves my CZ 75 (full sized, all steel 9mm pistol), and if yours wants a smaller gun, the subcompact CZ 2075 RAMI in 9mm is a great gun that gives you the option of a shorter (lighter & more concealable) 10 round mag or an extended grip 14 round mag. The happy medium is the CZ 75D PCR (compact, alloy 9mm). All are outstanding guns for a reasonable price, IMO.

It's DA/SA, and it's a tack driver out of a 3" barrel. It also comes in alloy or polymer versions with blued or stainless slides. Sweet little gun!
 
First handgun I ever fired was a .357mag Ruger Blackhawk. I loved it. I liked the power, I liked the way it fit, and I liked the way it had an impressive response, but not a brutal recoil.

I usually shoot a S&W model 59 semi. I sometimes shoot a friend's Ruger Mark II .22lr. Perhaps a .22 is better for someone who is a little inditmidated and isn't sure what to expect and wants to ease in slowly. A .357mag in a nice heavy revolver is great for those of us who weren't sure how we would handle that first handgun recoil but who like a big noise and a lot of feedback. Maybe a semi is good to start for someone who has an especial appreciation for quick-fire, getting into a rythm of shooting, dropping a mag, shooting.

It's about personality. The first sport I fell in love with was judo, particularly groundwork--grappling iow. The idea that I need to be eased into a larger caliber because guns are loud and have recoil is simply preposterous.

But I only get really pissy about it when someone says that's what I need becuase I'm a woman. Makes me wish I still practiced judo, so I could toss some guys around for fun. ;)
 
Very simple folks. Some people do better starting out on the centerfires and others do not. There is no written in stone how to start people out. There are good points for both starting out with rimfires and for centerfires.

Having introduced the a number of gals to firearms the .22lrf was tried in semi-auto and revolver.
These gals were also presented with a 9mm. full size pistol and some easy shooting loads. For those who wanted to try it.
Also added were those who wanted to try a .357 magnum.

It was explained to them the basics of .357 magnum and .38 Special ammo.
148 gr. wadcutter .38 Special were used. If they wanted to try some 130gr. or other sedate loads,fine.

When they are good and ready then I let the .357 magnums loose. Even if they want to try just a couple. If no, then nothing is lost. Explain and show recoil techniques.

It was take it at their pace. Might take a few sessions or one to get someone to move along up to the next steps. Might never get past step one. There are those for whom the .22lrf is going to be it. Something us centerfire types need to understand.

There are those, as Pax has pointed out, who start out firing just the centerfires and love it. It takes experience mentoring to figure out on a case by case basis what an individual is going to need in the way of training. One size doesn't fit all,so there is no one right way to train all the time.

At IDPA shoots around here there are petite and very short women who love to shoot the .45 ACP SA pistols. That was what they were started on to begin with. Great for them. Maybe not so for others.

I offer the individual choices and explain what they are and why. People with common sense usually know there limitations and understand quite a bit. If they know don't one can tailor the course to start with the low end (22lrf) and go to the high in steps when the individual is ready.

Being pushy is not in the best interests of the person being taught.

There may be a few things missing, but everyone gets the point.

Most of this has already been covered, but thought a summary might help at this point.

After all, this thread is going into extra innings.:):what:
 
I can not believe that even in the year 2007 so many male shooters still think a small revolver is the perfect gun for a small woman. Truly unreal IMO.

tron646,
You will make a HUGE mistake choosing the gun you expect your wife to carry and shoot. If I were you I wouldn't even give her my opinion unless she asked for it. Let her do her own research because then she owns the process.

Listen to what Pax is telling you. Also, give you wife the link to her WEB site. I'm sure she will find the information there invaluable. IMO both of you should read everything on her site, I know I did...
 
By the way, pax, I checked out your website...

First by dialup at 26 kbps, and then by really high speed...

It's a wonderfully designed website, even for the dialup user...

And there's lots of good **** there too...

:)

Forrest
 
Revolvers are not outdated in many ways and can get the job done. Have both many revolvers and pistols. Both have fine attributes. Exposing the spouse to only one or other type is very closed minded.
Since she can make up her own mind what she shoots best let her make the choice as to whether pistol or revolver is the preferred one.
slanting her choices either way is insulting ot her and her abilities.
 
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