Winchester pdx dedicated Taurus Judge round

[mec]

When the Judge came out, the available buckshot loads dispursed so quickly that they were not much good past 15 feet. The new Remington 000 ought four pellet load holds pretty tight at twice that range and the Winchester Western PDX shows some real promise for self defense/varmints.
The payload consists of three 70 grain slugs and twelve bb size shot. The slugs hold pretty much to center mass out to 60 feet and presente a tight cluster at 30.

Slugs are still traveling in mass at six feet (center mass) and ten feet (head)

The combined shot column weighed out at 307 grains

I didn't feel like destroying my chronograph but the effect on this watermelon portends some significant velocity- shot from about 12 feet

A fairly decent supply of these has recently reached dealers shelves all over the place.
Persuant to the notion that web postings are now "intellectual property," this post including text and pictures is hereby released to the public domain with no restrictions as to its use or requirement for attribution. I would hope that those idiots on Wikipedia don't get hold of it but the release is general and inclusive.

 

[Chuck Perry]

How did it group for multiple rounds fired at distance? Did the disc clusters from multiple rounds form a group of any sorts?
The close range results seem to indicate this would be a very effective round!

 

[mec]

Sixty feet was my maximum distance. The first round laid two of the slugettes about four inches apart just below the head section of the target. The other one was off the paper. I fired another round that put the three slugs in six to eight inches aimed/hit lower on the target. At that distance, the bb shot had become or were fast becoming little more than an irritant- the same being true at 30 feet which seems to be at the outside limit of the intended operating range of this load. The heavy .17-inch shot shold have ample penetration at very close range and provide a three and six + inch footprint at six and ten feet respectively. The 30 feet is actually a bit farther than WW talks about in their promotional material. This gun behaves very well with 45 colt loads at 25 yards.

lacking a convenient bench, I sat on the ground and used my knees for a rest from 25 yards.

 

[MikeNice]

I've been wondering how that new load worked out. Thanks for the range report.

Am I the only one thinking this combination of gun and round could make a great car gun? I'm not sure how the .410 would do through a closed window. Alternating .45 and .410 might solve that issue though.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Sam1911]

Am I the only one thinking this combination of gun and round could make a great car gun?

Well, once a manufacturer has developed an "answer," there is always a certain need to find a "question" to fit it, isn't there?

As for a car gun, perhaps. At very close distances, where you might be able to expect that all your projectiles would end up in the bad guy, it might work well. I'd hate to employ it at much of a distance though, and have a well-aimed shot (or not!) also send the stray projectiles (those that were "off the paper") into the background, especially if this was a populous area.

You may ask yourself what this does better that a conventional weapon (presumably lighter, smaller, etc.) doesn't do so well. If you can find an answer for that, that you can really believe in, then this may be the perfect handgun for you!

 

[mec]

taurus thought it might makea good car gun and had

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl-ZIo-Wztc&feature=related

taurus thought it might makea good car gun and had metcalf treat it as such.

 

[MikeNice]

Sam, I meant simply as an in car gun. I'm thinking .357 snub for carry and a Judge in the car. Since I pocket carry it would make life easier. I wouldn't have to worry about somebody seeing me pull my pocket piece to store it, or put it back in my pocket.

I wouldn't really want to shoot that PDX round more than 7 -10 feet. At that distance Winchester says that it makes a seven inch spread. That means the spread is the width of my torso.

I'm almost 230lbs and kind of barell chested. A lot of people are smaller than me. I wouldn't want to risk a pellt flying past and injuring innocent people. Really the Judge would be for when I have to put my kid in the car or an attempted assault in traffic. In those scenarios it might be perfect with the PDX round.

The Judge is low on my list, but I just like to contemplate these things.

 

[hunto]

I've read that the rifling tends to 'donut' the shot. Why not drill out the threads and make it a smoothbore revolver? Wouldn't that make it more effective with shotgun shells? And, I read that the long cylinder makes shooting the 45LC cartridges less than optimally as far as accuracy goes anyway, so you'd be giving up little in that area.

 

[Landric]

I've read that the rifling tends to 'donut' the shot. Why not drill out the threads and make it a smoothbore revolver? Wouldn't that make it more effective with shotgun shells? And, I read that the long cylinder makes shooting the 45LC cartridges less than optimally as far as accuracy goes anyway, so you'd be giving up little in that area.

Doing so would also make it a short barreled shotgun, which would be illegal without a federal tax stamp and the requisite paperwork.

 

[Sam1911]

Doing so would also make it a short barreled shotgun,

Actually, not so. Doing so would make it one of the types of "Any Other Weapon" (smoothbore handgun) that are regulated under Title II of the NFA, just like a Short Barreled Shotgun.

Same result (illegal unregistered Title II firearm, 10 years in prison, up to $250,000 fine) but different terminology.

 

[gofastman]

a .410" disk that weighs 70gr? doesn't sound like you would get decent penetration.

This round makes me think of a Glaser Blues slug, massive surface trauma with poor penetration, is that an accurate assessment?

still, sure looks enticing as a belly gun!

I wonder if/how much better the 6" barrel model works.

 

[Manco]

The combined shot column weighed out at 307 grains

At 70 grains, each slug or "disc" has about the same mass as a typical .32 ACP bullet or #000 buckshot pellet, but lower sectional density than either.

I didn't feel like destroying my chronograph but the effect on this watermelon portends some significant velocity- shot from about 12 feet

I read somewhere that Winchester representatives claim that it does about 750 fps out of a Judge barrel (probably a 3" or 4" one), which is more or less in line with independent tests of other loads I've seen (actually kind of hot considering the total mass of the projectiles). That amounts to about 383 foot-pounds of kinetic energy in total, which should be enough to burst a watermelon if the energy is transferred rapidly, and with three ~.390" diameter slugs (plus a bunch of BBs) and photographic evidence we can see that is indeed the case.

Of course this also means that penetration, as we should expect from looking at sectional density, will be limited despite the ample energy and momentum of the load. I wouldn't be surprised if a .32 ACP FMJ bullet could achieve twice the depth of penetration, and even #000 buckshot should penetrate more deeply. Whatever one thinks of the Judge, I have to question the theoretical effectiveness of the PDX1 .410 shotshell in comparison to #000 buckshot.

 

[Elmer]

a .410" disk that weighs 70gr? doesn't sound like you would get decent penetration.

This round makes me think of a Glaser Blues slug, massive surface trauma with poor penetration, is that an accurate assessment?

Pretty much. Which means that in some cases, it will probably work.