Winchester Value-Pack oddity

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BHPshooter

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Went shooting today, had some good fun. Tried out my new handload (Hornady XTP JHPs) and they work great.

Anyway, I got home, and found I had 17 rounds of Win Val-Pack left, what a coincidence, I have an empty 17-round magazine! So I start to load it up, and catch a glimpe of something weird out of the corner of my eye -- it looked like one of the primers was in backwards.

So I look at it, and lo and behold, the primer is not in backwards, there is no primer. But that's not all, because the primer cavity had no hole to let the explosion get to the powder!

So, some observations:

1) This is pretty weird, but since there's no hole and no primer, it may make for a cool little keychain that won't have people screaming "Terrorist!"

2) I have been thinking -- what if there was a primer in the depression, but no hole for the blast? What would that have done to my gun?!? :uhoh:

3) No primer, no hole, but there is powder in there. Is there any way to take it out without marring the bullet or finish, if I want to make it into a keychain?

Anybody else ever had something like this happen?

Wes
 
Nope, never had this problem in all the ammo I've loaded. I've always mildly inspected it all.

I inspect my carry ammo a little better than range ammo. Range ammo basically just gets loaded with a quick lookover as I stuff it into the mag. Give Winchester a call and tell them what you've discovered.

I think that Winchester quality control is no better than average in my experience, but also in my experience they still make the best self defense ammo out there and their target/military contract ammo ain't too shabby either.

I use Winchester NATO in my carry gun.

I believe Winchester is currently owned by FN. A huge corporation and a military contractor. They also own Browning as far as I know.

Not good or bad news, just for your information.
 
I had a factory round with no flash hole once. It was surplus 9mm from some other country. When I pulled the trigger there was just a click/pop sound. I racked the slide to get the round out and there were bubbles coming out around the edge of the primer where they had applied sealant. That made me nervous so I dropped it and left it lay for a while. Later I took the round apart and saw there was no flash hole.

Answers:
1. I think most of the people who get nervous about bullet sightings will not care that there is no primer because they do not know what they are looking at.
2. It doesn't do anything at all to the gun, other than the leakage past the edge of the primer there is no pressure to contain.
3. You mentioed trying a newhandload. Treat it just like a normal round to remove powder, pull the bullet, dump the powder, seat bullet.
 
Wes...

"Anybody else ever had something like this happen?"

The closet I ever came was a round of UMC 9mm FMJ that had the primer in...sideways. It was pretty obvious and I put it away somewhere for future reference but since lost it.
 
I was recently shooting with a friend, and as he was loading my CZ-75 with Win White Box 115, when he noticed one of the cases had a pretty large and deep dent in the side of the case, like it had been slightly smashed in a machine of some sort. Luckily he noticed it and didn't load it. I don't know if the round would've gone off/jammed or what. I still have the round and have been meaning to contact Winchester about it...

Never had one without a primer though.
 
That is weird, Thefumegator! Two major problems with the same round. I think the second one, the missing primer, was caused by the first problem, no flash hole. I'll bet that the primer popped back out after it was seated by the automatic priming machine due to the pressure under the primer since there was no place for it to go.

To answer your questions/observations:
1) Yes they would still scream "terrorist" becasue the type of person that would scream that after seeing a harmless object is the same type that doesn't know a bullet even has a primer. But on the other hand, who the hell cares what they do or think? :)

2) Nothing. There's a heck of a lot more pressure from the expanding powder gases than a primer creates. The primer would just do its usual thing and back out a little to the breech face and then it would probably stay out since the case wouldn't follow it and reseat the primer since the powder didn't go off. That could affect a revolver, but probably not your CZ.

3) Maybe you could drill inside the primer pocket with a larger-than-flashhole drill bit. Then you could dump out the powder. I would use a drill press on low speed with the case held fast in a vise. Take your time so heat doesn't build up. Wear heavy gloves and a face mask and keep a fire extinguisher nearby on a just-in-case basis. Since the case is brass there shouldn't be any sparks to set off the powder. Even if the powder does go off, the bullet won't go far or fast. It's not as dangerous as it might appear at first thought. But then again I'm the kind of guy that used to shoot CO2 cartridges out of homemade cannons across the Potomac. (None of them ever made it even halfway.) Talk about being a terrorist by today's definition. :D
 
Response to question #3.

An inertial pullet puller will remove the bullet without marring bullet or case. Since you "roll your own", you probably already have one.
 
Going off topic for just a bit

*three* Snap-on toolboxes, Jeep Driver??
I thought I was going to go bankrupt buying one!
Click to expand...

Yea they are costing me a fair amount, but I only haqve another 10 months left to pay them off.

I'm proud of them,
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That tool box is one of the reasons I I only have this Stack On cabinet for a safe, I can't wait to get a real safe
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I wish I had all the money I've spent on tools in a bank account. Then I could get myself a couple of MP 5's ! ! ! !
 
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More Win. stuff

I check each 9mm cartridge before it goes into one of my pistols with a Dillon case gage: so far, I've found SIX from Win. Value boxes that didn't come CLOSE to fitting. Instead of trying to suck-up for a freebie, I've just stopped buying their WallyWorld stuff.
 
What would I do to report this defect? Should I find a phone number on the Winchester website, or email, them or... ?

Jeepdriver, that's the kind of keychain I'm going for. Where do you get the piece that goes into the flash hole? I've seen those before, but never found any. Any info that you can give me about making one of these is much appreciated.

Wes
 
Winchester is owned by Olin Corporation.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction. Some old guy at Scheel's Sporting Goods told me that Winchester was recently bought out by FN, but he must have been mistaken.

I've only had one problem with Winchester ammo, and I'm not sure it was even a problem. Last Summer I was shooting my Taurus Titanium .41 magnum model 415T (I sold this gun) with Winchester 210gr. full house Super-X loads (same energy as factory .44 magnums) and one of the loads seemed to go *pfffff*, (I had my earplugs in, but it seemed different) but it went off, just seemed to have less recoil than the others.

Could have been the fact that I was shooting several hundred full house .41 magnums out of a 19oz. ultralite titanium gun that day and my hand was just numb or I was imagining things in the 109 degree North Dakota heat that day, but that's the only problem I've ever encountered with Winchester ammo and I believe it was a twenty year old box. I've fired many thousands of rounds of Winchester and in my opinion they are the best ammunition manufacturer.






Btw Thefumegator, I read your profile and you remind myself of me! Only you're a smarter younger version. ;)
 
Completely OT but I believe that FN owns the conglomorate that includes Browning and USRAC that builds rifles under the Winchester name; Winchester Ammunition is owned by Olin.


I think.
 
Jeepdriver, that's the kind of keychain I'm going for. Where do you get the piece that goes into the flash hole? I've seen those before, but never found
Click to expand...

We made these using just a common nail. Drill a small hole in the nail very near the rim of the case to put a ring through to mount on a key ring.

So, drill out the flash hole, insert nail, mark nail where small hole is to be drilled, remove nail and drill hole in it, insert nail back into flash hole, put small ring through small hole in nail to mount to key chain, cut off excess nail and touch up rough cut on nail with a small file. One thing that seems to make things easier is to cut the nail after it is in the flash hole and has the small ring installed that will attach it to you key ring. We tried to make our nails as short as possible, and if we cut the nails first and then try to put them through the flash hole and insert the small rings in the nails, well is was darn near impossible to hold and make that rotating nail stub stay still to insert the ring through the hole in the now stub of a nail.
 
I've fired cartridges with no flash hole a few times before. It doesn't do any damage that i could determine, but it locked up the gun HARD. We had to hammer on the muzzle with a leather mallet for a few minutes to get the darn gun opened up.

owen
 
saxon, i think i would have taken it off the key ring and thrown it across the terminal to see if he would get on his radio and yell that there was someone shooting up the place. I probably would have made a few comments on his level of intelligence at the very least.

So, anyone else carry these when they have to fly. The irony is completely lost on airport screeners when they confiscate it. http://www.securityedition.com/
 
Fumegator, DO NOT try to drill a hole in the primer hole or anywhere else while the round still has powder in it. Pull the bullet,dump the powder and then drill to your hearts content. Better yet, send the round back to Winchester. Several years ago, I had some .38 Spl's made by CCI. One of the primers was upside down. I sent it and the lot# back to CCI and they sent me coupons for 5 boxes of shells.
 
I had a box of Winchester ammo that had a couple of rounds with crushed primers. I sent both back to Winchester with the lot number and they sent me coupons worth $20 for Winchester products.
 
In a 50rd. box of 9mm Win./USA

there was a round with an inverted primer.:(
 
Ive had problems with the WWB 44mag and 40S&W. The accuracy of these things were aweful. And 2 malfunctions to boot.:mad: No more for me.:mad:
 

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