Wondering about an AR-15

[Tarendol]

It will be a little while before I could get an AR, but I have my "training" firearms and I am seriously thinking about which ones I am going to get next. I have been reading a lot about AR's on this site and others, but I am really confused about some things I am hoping you can help me out with!

The first is the caliber. I hear many bad things about the .223/5.56, and it is starting to worry me. Now, I realize that I will almost certainly only be using it for shooting targets, but it would be nice to have something decent for SHTF. I looked at the .223 rounds at the store and they seem really tiny! Am I worrying about it too much here? I absolutely do not want to start a caliber war here, I am just a new guy confused by all the controversy. If you think .223 is not good, would you recommend another upper for the AR or a different rifle entirely? I could get an AK much cheaper.

Here is another question about caliber; is it better to get an AR that can fire .223 or 5.56? I know some can only do .223 and some can do both. Is there any real difference? I am confused here too.

Anyway, thanks for the help, like I said I am just trying to figure this out.

 

[BloodyBucket03]

The AR15

I am not an ammo expert buy any means but here is a good site to read about the ammo used in AR15's. http://www.ammo-oracle.com Now I have been using the M16 rifle for 7yrs and in Iraq as a MP. Their is a plus and minus to the AR15 compared to an AK. First of the AR15 can be effective up to 400 meters with a skilled marksman and a nice setup. The AK is half that. Remember the AR is a precision tool and not a Machine gun like the AK. The AK has more stopping power in close quarters than the AR15 because of the 7.62 round that is uses. The AK can be more frequently abused buried in dirt dropped in water and fired continuously without being cleaned and will keep on working. The AR on the other hand should be cleaned after every firing session. Now you commented on how tiny the round is but imagine that small looking round tumbling and cutting through the air with a high rate of velocity and punching through a target at a 100yds. Depending on the type of tip the round has whether soft or hollow and the grain used in the round will determine the wounding factor. Now when buying an AR you want the AR that is chambered for 5.56 nato because you can fire both 5.56 and .223. If you buy an AR that is chambered for just .223 you can only use .223 ammo and not 5.56 because military grade 5.56 ammo is loaded for higher rates of pressure and velocity and can be very dangerous to use in a rifle made for .223.
My opinion is that you should go with whatever rifle you feel comfortable with. My preference is the A15 because I have dealt with that rifle for so many years and I am comfortable with it and I am confident with it's ability and have used in a bad situation and trust me it will drop your target. If you bought an AR you would not be disappointed in it’s performance and reliability. It’s one of the best weapons ever created for our service men and women. Good luck in your choice of rifle.

 

[Rexrider]

Now you commented on how tiny the round is but imagine that small looking round tumbling and cutting through the air with a high rate of velocity and punching through a target at a 100yds.

Please note that 5.56 nato and .223 do NOT tumble in the air on the way to the target. If a bullet tumbles out of the barrel, there is something very wrong with the barrel.

Military 5.56 x 45 ammo like M193 (55gr FMJ) and M855 (62 gr "green tip") are designed to tumble after impact. The tumbling causes the bullet to break apart or "fragment". Fragmenting is what makes the 5.56 x 45 very effective.

For information on all things 5.56 and .223 please read the Ammo-Oracle
There is a lot of good information there and should answer most if not all your questions on ammo for the AR-15

Now, as far as making a choice between an AR and an AK. Only you can make that choice. Each stlye rifle has its stong and weak points. You really can't go wrong with either one. I went the AR route and have no regrets. But then I have no doubt if I went the AK, I would have no regrets either.

 

[f4t9r]

for target the 223 is just fine , It as worked for years and will keep on doing the job for years to come . for what you listed I would go 223

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

The first is the caliber. I hear many bad things about the .223/5.56, and it is starting to worry me

Nothing to worry about. Regular .223 ammo is great to practice with, if you want good effectiveness against human targets, just buy 68-75 grain OTM (open tip match aka HP bullets)..like Hornady TAP. These tumble and fragment violently after impact.

Now, I realize that I will almost certainly only be using it for shooting targets, but it would be nice to have something decent for SHTF.

The AR-15 is in my opinion, 10x more enjoyable and useful for shooting targets than an AK. It has superior ergonomics, lower recoil, and better sights - it is also more accurate, and thus, a better measure of your skill.


If you need it to, it WILL serve just fine as a SHTF gun.

I looked at the .223 rounds at the store and they seem really tiny! Am I worrying about it too much here? I absolutely do not want to start a caliber war here, I am just a new guy confused by all the controversy. If you think .223 is not good, would you recommend another upper for the AR or a different rifle entirely?

While bigger is generally better, there is more at work than just size when it comes to wounding/killing which is effectiveness. Don't worry, a 68gr TAP will probably do more damage than a 7.62x39mm that the AK fires.

Here is another question about caliber; is it better to get an AR that can fire .223 or 5.56? I know some can only do .223 and some can do both. Is there any real difference? I am confused here too.

Yes, there IS a difference.


Get an AR that can fire both. That means get an AR with a true 5.56 chamber. A .223 can fire in a 5.56, but a 5.56 shouldn't be fired in a .223 chamber. The difference is small, but has to do with the leade/throat and pressure levels. Some people claim that ALL AR's have a 5.56 due to safety/liability issues...this is FALSE.

If you want to guarantee you have a 5.56 chamber, get a Colt or a Bushmaster. Besides, these two brands (especially the Colt) will be superior in about 20 other aspects. Kit guns, and smaller lesser brands often just have .223 chambers. 99.9% of the time shooting a 5.56 NATO round in them is totally fine...and thus why few have ever made a big deal out of it. I prefer to get the real deal though and play it safe.

 

[Henry455]

Another option is the Wylde chamber that RRA offers in their stainless "Varmit" barrels.

 

[BloodyBucket03]

Please note that 5.56 nato and .223 do NOT tumble in the air on the way to the target. If a bullet tumbles out of the barrel, there is something very wrong with the barrel.

Actually you are right Rex the word is actually rotate beacause the round does spin enters the target and as it rotates in fragments and creates a larger exit wound. If you look into a barrel of an M16 it is designed to make the round rotate as it leaves the rifle. So thanx Rex for making that clear.

 

[Rexrider]

Sorry BloodyBucket03.

When I saw the word "tumble" and I thought you meant the bullet would be travelling end over end.

The "tumble in the air" is one of those AR myths that just will not die even though the concept makes no sense whatsoever.

I just wanted to make sure no one passing bad info to Tarendol.

Cheers

 

[BloodyBucket03]

It's ok Rex no apology needed. I should have been more precise with my word usage. I too do not what to make it seem like I am giving bad info but like I said I have been using the AR majority of my entire adult life and I think it’s an outstanding rifle.

 

[BloodyBucket03]

AR15 Brands

Tarendol, Their will be many people telling you that you should by the ABC brands of AR15 which is Armilite-Bushmaster-Colt. But for some particularly reason some people believe that if you by one of the three you will not have problems but I will tell you this. It you abuse the AR and not take care of it IE shoot 500+ rounds through it and not clean it. Use junk ammo like Wolf which I believe should not be used in an American GI rifle it should only be used in a Russian rifle like my Mosin that it is intended for you will have problems. I have used Colt rifles that were garbage. I had friends who had problems with their bushmasters and many of them did not want to clean their rifle until 4 range trips later it all depends on how you take care of your rifle. Their are so many brands to chose from Colt, Bushmaster, Armilite, Rockriver, DPMS, Olympic Arms and a few other brands which I would not trust but the ones that I just mentioned are the brands you will see many AR15 fans with. I own an Olympic Arms and I think it’s a great rifle. I have fired over 800 rounds through it no problem and many people out there bash Oly arms saying it is a low quality AR. The Main reason for me purchasing this rifle was the price and the lifetime warranty. I think, but I am not sure the only other company that has a lifetime warranty on their Ar's is Armilite. I feel if you are going to spend nice money on an AR it should come with a real good warranty. If you stick with any of the companies I mentioned above you will not have any problems it's just what you are willing to spend.