i just got a 100 round box of wwb .38 special plinkin' ammo from walmart, and when i got home i noticed that some of the rounds are stamped "38 SPL" and some stamped "38 SPL +P". i haven't gotten a box of these in a long time, but i don't recall ever seeing those mixed before. anyone else seen this? are the ones stamped "+P" really, or did they just use the wrong brass in the batch? other than the stamp, they all look the same.
wwb 38spl, some +p?
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351 WINCHESTER
Member
Get the lot number from the box and call the mfg. as they will be interested. Personally, I would not shoot any of it as it may have been tampered with. Most likely the mfg. will want you to send it back to them at their expense.
1. The +P is not a hot load. It's not even a warm load. It's loaded 3,000 psi below industry standards for the caliber. If it says 38 SPECIAL on the barrel it can shoot +P.
2. Factory ammo has been reduced in power in recent years. In the 1950s and 1960s what was considered standard 38 loads were more powerful and generated greater chamber pressure than do current +P loads.
Here's a photo of my 1942 M&P with some of the 500 rounds of Remington +P (125 JHP at 925 FPS) and 600 rounds of my own +P+ loads (same 125 JHP at a clocked 1150 FPS) that I fired through it to see if anything would happen. Nothing did.
If you call S&W their lawyers tell them to tell you no +P in any gun made before last Wednesday. But trust me, +P is not a high performance load. A 125 at 925? Give me a break. Hardly a good plinking load.
2. Factory ammo has been reduced in power in recent years. In the 1950s and 1960s what was considered standard 38 loads were more powerful and generated greater chamber pressure than do current +P loads.
Here's a photo of my 1942 M&P with some of the 500 rounds of Remington +P (125 JHP at 925 FPS) and 600 rounds of my own +P+ loads (same 125 JHP at a clocked 1150 FPS) that I fired through it to see if anything would happen. Nothing did.
If you call S&W their lawyers tell them to tell you no +P in any gun made before last Wednesday. But trust me, +P is not a high performance load. A 125 at 925? Give me a break. Hardly a good plinking load.
I would not shoot that ammo. Take it back to the store. As far as I know the "white box" ammo is supposed to be factory new and this doesn't sound right at all to have mixed brass.
What is the load? Describe the ammo. What does the labeling say?
What is the load? Describe the ammo. What does the labeling say?
71Commander
Member
You can't take it back to the store. I don't know of any store that allows the return of ammo.
doc540
Member
"2. Factory ammo has been reduced in power in recent years. In the 1950s and 1960s what was considered standard 38 loads were more powerful and generated greater chamber pressure than do current +P loads."
Listen to this man.
My 80+ year old dad cleaned out his gun room and gave me several boxes of .38 ammo he'd owned since the the '60's.
Took some to the range...and...
BOOM!
Even the rangemaster looked in my direction since I'd been popping .38's for a while and THIS one sounded and felt like a .357 MAG.
I shot a full cylinder with all of them being big boomers.
Then I tried to extract the shells and one of them wouldn't extract.
hmmmmm....
remember this stuff?
It goes BIG BOOM compared to today's ammo.
Listen to this man.
My 80+ year old dad cleaned out his gun room and gave me several boxes of .38 ammo he'd owned since the the '60's.
Took some to the range...and...
BOOM!
Even the rangemaster looked in my direction since I'd been popping .38's for a while and THIS one sounded and felt like a .357 MAG.
I shot a full cylinder with all of them being big boomers.
Then I tried to extract the shells and one of them wouldn't extract.
hmmmmm....
remember this stuff?
It goes BIG BOOM compared to today's ammo.
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winchester white box, 38 special 130gr. full metal jacket, target/range, 100 round box. item is "USA38SPVP". lot number appears to be "07C660 024"
i'm attaching a couple images showing the box and then a closeup on the round themselves. you'll notice they're randomly assorted "38 SPL" / "38 SPL +P"...
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doc540
Member
double post...duh
Deltaboy1984
Member
I remember that S&W Blue box ammo I had some in 125 hp in 357 and it would make a volly ball size fireball out of my 4 inch Colt Tropper III.
.455_Hunter
Member
I have seen this before...
Winchester seems to use whatever cases they have on-hand for WWB.
A few years ago, I found box of WWB 130 gr. FMJ .38 Special loaded into +P cases. I called Winchester and they said "don't worry about it". Admittedly, the loads were correct, just the cases labeled wrong.
This morning, I shot some 10 year old WWB 115 gr. FMJ 9mm that was loaded into NATO spec cases (cross in circle w/ 99 date).
Just FYI.
Winchester seems to use whatever cases they have on-hand for WWB.
A few years ago, I found box of WWB 130 gr. FMJ .38 Special loaded into +P cases. I called Winchester and they said "don't worry about it". Admittedly, the loads were correct, just the cases labeled wrong.
This morning, I shot some 10 year old WWB 115 gr. FMJ 9mm that was loaded into NATO spec cases (cross in circle w/ 99 date).
Just FYI.
although i'm not concerned that a 38 special +P round would harm my revolver (GP100), the mere fact that there is a mix of headstamps concerned me that something might have gone wrong somewhere along the process. my first reaction was to think, as mentioned above, they simply used the brass they had on hand and it's indeed the same load. i think i might be more concerned if i had an old 38 special only gun instead of my 357.
after poking around on their site for too long, trying to figure out how to contact them, i finally found the form and submitted my inquiry. with an abundance of caution, i'll place the box on the shelf and patiently wait for their reply.
after poking around on their site for too long, trying to figure out how to contact them, i finally found the form and submitted my inquiry. with an abundance of caution, i'll place the box on the shelf and patiently wait for their reply.
351 WINCHESTER
Member
Good choice. W/W want's to know of any problems with their ammo. Most likely they will want the ammo back at their expense. Most likely they will either refund your purchase price or send you some more ammo.
I have never purchased or even seen this ammo in person. Someone said they use various cases. I am amazed that they would do that but it appears that's exactly what they do.
Soooo... nothing in that box is actually +P, apparently.
I have to question the QC on ammo using whatever cases they have on hand. Seems very foolish to mix headstamps even on discount ammo.
Soooo... nothing in that box is actually +P, apparently.
I have to question the QC on ammo using whatever cases they have on hand. Seems very foolish to mix headstamps even on discount ammo.
got following reply from winchester:
sounds kinda like what i expected to hear, but it sounds like really bad practice. what if there really was somehow a mixup of some sort? if there was indeed some sort of mix up, they did absolutely no investigation to confirm anything (not even asking for the lot number), but i did get the all-clear to go out and shoot it! i'm not so sure their lawyers would appreciate this.
sounds kinda like what i expected to hear, but it sounds like really bad practice. what if there really was somehow a mixup of some sort? if there was indeed some sort of mix up, they did absolutely no investigation to confirm anything (not even asking for the lot number), but i did get the all-clear to go out and shoot it! i'm not so sure their lawyers would appreciate this.
Yeah they seem awful sure of themselves. Who's to say the mixup didn't occur after the ammo was loaded but before being boxed. Or even some doofus in a warehouse somewhere was playing around mixing stuff up.
If your revolver is +p rated i'd shoot it and see if you can tell any difference...or maybe weigh it if you have a reloading scale and see if they weigh the same.
That might not be definitive if they weigh the same because they may use different powders but if they weigh differently you know somethings up.
If your revolver is +p rated i'd shoot it and see if you can tell any difference...or maybe weigh it if you have a reloading scale and see if they weigh the same.
That might not be definitive if they weigh the same because they may use different powders but if they weigh differently you know somethings up.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Well, they gotta get rid of their floor-sweepings some way.
The can't just throw it in the trash!
rc
The can't just throw it in the trash!
rc
.455_Hunter
Member
Sounds like the response I got.
sidheshooter
Member
Remember this stuff?
As a matter of fact, I do. No fun in a J-frame.
I agree that there seems to be a continuing deflation; even of late. I went to the range with a lady to get her used to her new 5-shot defensive purchase. She had some new cor-bon 125 along, and I had some 129 hydr-shok from the late 80's or early 90's. When we got around to the defensive stuff later in the day, I was surprised at how much more recoil, blast and flash the old Federal had compared to the new corbon, with essentially the same weight bullet.
Just an observation.
sidheshooter
Member
Yeah, Saxon, you've pretty much convinced me–here and on other forums–not to get my undies in a bunch over the "FBI" load in any of my 70's era, 80's era, or airweight S&Ws. Makes life easier to just stock up on one decent load for everything chambered for .38 spec.
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