People who work at gun stores

Lot's of outrage about the uneducated minimum wage employees of gun stores. Start asking culinary questions at McDonalds and you'll get similar results.

Why is this surprising or outrageous?

Yep !! How many McDonald's employees would know how many legs a chicken has. But then who knows what that meat is they put in chicken sandwiches?

This is a general statement, and dosent apply to a great many gun people.
From observing people who frequently post on forums, we are usually more dedicated to, knowledgeable, and yes opinionated about our sport (ive been a regular on paintball, and car forums too) than your average counter worker or daily shopper.

You see the same reactions on all the different forums to post like this, and generally were upset cause someone is wrong about OUR sport/car etc, and WE KNOW IT!!!!

Theres nothing wrong with that imnsho, but its also not right to tear up a counter person, or other customer over it (If some one did that in my store i would have a private word with them).
As most of us would, walking away is fine, have a laugh at some one elses expense.
If there might be something dangerous that could happen, def say something politely.


*Edit* And for the record mcds chicken sandwichs are delicious.....

By the nature of what they're trying to sell you, I think anyone behind the gun counter should have a fair knowledge of basic firearm safety, basic firearm operation and the differences in features between brands, and the correct terminology when they describe said features. If I (meaning, anyone shopping that isn't really knowledgeable) walk into the LGS, be it Academy, WalMart or the small private concern, and see two guys in front of the counter that I don't know, and one guy behind the counter that I recognize as the sales person, I have to assume that he knows his product at least well enough to answer my questions, or to say, "I'm not sure, but I have the Internet over there". I have no way of knowing what, if anything, the two customers know, or think they know, about guns. By default, the salesman should be the "expert". If he's blathering about something, and I don't know the difference, and one of the other guys chimes in with some tidbit that may or may not be a fact, how can I know which one really knows what he's talking about? The same goes if I'm one of the two guys at the counter when the newbie comes in and starts asking questions; how could he know whether the corrections I'm making to what the salesman is saying are correct or not?

This is why I feel the gun salesman should have working knowledge of what he's selling. I don't need his opinion that Sig is vastly superior to H-K, or that the latest Taurus semiauto offering is better than the Springfield at half the price; he should leave the decision to me as to which is the best choice for me; what I want is him to show me the features of what I'm shopping for, and maybe compare them to the other similar guns ("this one has ambidextrous safety and a decocker, and the other one doesn't") and maybe explain the value of those features. If I ask what the magazine capacity is, at least he should know enough to pop the mag out and we'll look together, but the blank stare like, "magazine? we don't sell books here", will have me out of the store, never to return. Same goes if they start muzzle flashing everyone in the store while trying to rack back the slide or remove a magazine.

Maybe the store that hires these people don't give them great training, but during all the downtime between customers, anybody with the slightest initiative should start looking at their products, reading the manuals, opening boxes of ammo so that when somebody asks for wadcutters, they'll at least know the difference between them and FMJ.

I sold stereo equipment back in the '70s. The day I started, I knew how to turn the receiver on, tune a station, and turn up the volume. By the end of my first month, I could tell you, when you pointed at a particular brand of audio, what it was priced, how it was rated, each and every feature it had, what kind of warranty came with it, and where it was made. We carried over 15 different brands; speakers, amplifiers, tape decks, turntables, equalizers and so on. Sort of like working in the LGS and selling pistols, revolvers, rifles, shotguns and all the stuff that goes with them.

bangswitch said:

I sold stereo equipment back in the '70s. The day I started, I knew how to turn the receiver on, tune a station, and turn up the volume. By the end of my first month, I could tell you, when you pointed at a particular brand of audio, what it was priced, how it was rated, each and every feature it had, what kind of warranty came with it, and where it was made. We carried over 15 different brands; speakers, amplifiers, tape decks, turntables, equalizers and so on. Sort of like working in the LGS and selling pistols, revolvers, rifles, shotguns and all the stuff that goes with them.

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If we only had 15 items, or heck even 15 brands, to train people on, i'd be so happy with that.

At last count.... just now....we had 4169 individual active SKU's in our shop, and have received over 400 unique firearms in the last 9 months.

15......sweety ! I'd hope you could disassemble and reassemble them too- a common requirement at the counter

Most gun counter clerks are not forum fanboys or even close to professionally proficient in firearms. They're clerks. Gunsmith/accountant/technical CAD engineer is not in the job description. Nor should it be.

With that said, training has a LOT to do with it. Leaving novice sales associates to fend for themselves behind a gun counter is.......perilous......to the bottom line at the very least.

Most purchasers of firearms could care two whips about serious technical details. What "we've" found the majority of people want is an honest transaction, with someone who can hold a genuine conversation, assess that person(s) needs, and point them in the direction of a suitable tool for their application, which they can demonstrate the operation and assembly of, and explain usable and necessary accessories to suit that purchase. In the unlikely event someone requires highly specialized technical knowledge, both the internet and higher trained staff are always available.


I'd also like to throw my 2 pennies in this corner : When the knowledgeable folks in any field or sport completely abandon the physical stores that sell their chosen sport or professions equipment in favor of the cheaper prices found on the internet, you immediately forfeit your right to gripe about the quality of service representation in stores you don't frequent. Feel free to bring your cash back, and I'll hire straight off the base armorers to assist you in your every need. They're expensive. You're killing retail shops over $4 on a scope..... seriously. Seriously.

Got those cleaning kits at Midway ?
$8/hr clerk for you.

I worked at the LGS part time for several years. I had a customer that had an absolute screaming fit because I didn't know if a particular model of pistol had a 4 1/4" or 4 1/2" barrel. I was supposed to "know my stuff". Well, you sit and scour over the particulars and specs on a product for weeks, then expect me to know just as much.

Thing is, that goes for shotguns, scopes, ammo, cleaning products, clothing, etc, etc.

Just think of how many types, varieties, brands, manufacturers there are of firearms. There have to be thousands of just brands. Now mix in years, calibers, model variations and it has to be hundreds of thousands if not millions of variations.

And, if you think there is no such thing as a stupid question/comment, work the other side of the counter for a week.

Given the constant confusion and disagreements even on firearm's forums about how stuff works, I'm shocked anyone would think that a gunstore employee would have a broad knowledge base.

The OP was about wadcutters, and while I made a little quip about it, does anyone actually consider wadcutters a common gun shop purchase anymore? Stock bedding products, peep sights for lever actions, biathlon rifles - does anyone think that stuff comes up compared to polymer .40s and AR15s?

Don't expect boutique service from a standard vendor.

Dog Soldier said:

Gentlemen it is your job to educate the customer. You are not being paid to condemn the source of your income. If you are intrusted by investors to stand behind the counter you are to represent the owner's best interest. The store invest in bricks and mortar and inventory to sell to the public. The public is your customer.

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I've educated lots of people who appreciated it and became repeat customers, and spent countless hours with people who ended up buying things somewhere else to save a few dollars.

I've also spent countless hours listening to self-declared "experts" who really had no clue, but I couldn't argue with them, so I'd just be "less helpful" when they wanted something, and wouldn't go out of my way to do things for them as I would for those who didn't have an attitude from the beginning.

It's not part of the job description to "educate" them unless they have honest questions about the products, or to allow them to butt into my conversations with other customers.

Yes respecting others opinions can be a problem.

Old Dog said:

And once, a few years back, I too made the mistake of asking why the store didn't stock any .38 SPL wadcutters or semi-wadcutters and got that "Huh?" response ...

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Stores tend to stock what sells
Almost no one wants 38 Spcl wadcutters.
I bet they had some LRN 38's

jeepnik said:

Ok, you tell me you don't have it. I buy it somewhere else. I win, your employer loses. Now imagine your employers reaction should he find out. Were you working for me, you wouldn't be, and no one in my industry would ever hire you. Law says I can't say anything bad about you. But it doesn't say I have to say anything good. Smart employers know what that means.

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I'd just tell him how you acted and he would understand.

I always managed to get far more compliments than complaints about my service, and one customer wouldn't make or break a good business.

Especially the know it all type that wants to waste time trying to "educate" those working there.

If you acted halfway polite, I might even make an effort to special order what you need.

When I go in a store to buy, I am normally presold on a researched gun or shooting product. I am not there to be educated by or to educate a sales clerk.

I have had to learn not to try to educate a customer with poor ideas or bad recommendations by salesmen. ESPECIALLY when said salesman is more intent on moving inventory than meeting the customer's wants or needs. They do not like you interfering with a bird in the hand sale.

Jim Watson said:

I have had to learn not to try to educate a customer with poor ideas or bad recommendations by salesmen. ESPECIALLY when said salesman is more intent on moving inventory than meeting the customer's wants or needs. They do not like you interfering with a bird in the hand sale.

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At at the store I worked at, we had a pretty extensive inventory so moving something from inventory wasn't an issue, though it may be at a smaller store.

But sometimes when we'd be showing a handgun to a newbie, we'd get the "helpful" outsider that just had to push their favorite. Or they'd get into the endless 9mm/.40/.45 debate. We'd have the ultra-macho jerk who would bring in his wife for a CCW then insist she get a full frame 1911. 'Cause that's what he wants. But if we tried to steer them to something she could actually use, we were the pushy ones.

So, I've got an idea. If you just gotta promote a brand or model that's just so perfect compared to everything else in the world, open your own store and knock yourself out. Stock that one gun and see how it works out for ya.

Otherwise, unless it's something that causes an unsafe condition, zip your yap and keep out of the way. Some people should be seen, not heard. And seeing some, even that is too much exposure.

As for the OP, wadcutters probably comprise maybe 1/100th of 1% of all ammo sold. So, forgive the idiot slob who doesn't know what it is.

Many years ago I went to the store in North Hollywood CA to look for a "9". For some reason, I had to have one and asked the clerk for his recommendations. He placed a Walther P-5 and a Browning Hi Power on the counter and walked me through both of them in exquisite detail. I bought one and we lived happily ever after. That was service with a smile by a knowledgeable guy. As a kid, I learned much from gun store clerks whom I pestered when they were not busy. The San Francisco Gun Exchange being Holy Ground back in the 1960s. Those guys were amazingly patient with a kid too young to be customer. Naturally, I returned years later and bought from them.

More recently, I went to a chain store and all their revolvers were secured with zip ties. I asked how I was suppose to examine the piece and was told he could answer any questions I might have. I walked out.

bangswitch said:

) walk into the LGS, be it Academy, WalMart or the small private concern,

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If you consider Walmart and Academy the local gun store you're actually part of the problem.

There are stores that sell guns....then there are gun stores. Know the difference.

I have noticed after decades of observing and dealing with people that the most of the ones who complain about the skill level of other people are worse then anyone they pick to ridicule. most guys on forums have plenty of time on their hands so go get a job in a retail gun store to "teach" the unwashed masses

The ONLY reason i go to brick and mortar LGS's is for friendly, knowledgeable clerks; I can almost always find something specific i'm looking for on the internet for less money.

redneck2 said:

So, I've got an idea. If you just gotta promote a brand or model that's just so perfect compared to everything else in the world, open your own store and knock yourself out. Stock that one gun and see how it works out for ya.

Otherwise, unless it's something that causes an unsafe condition, zip your yap and keep out of the way. Some people should be seen, not heard. And seeing some, even that is too much exposure.

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That goes the other way, too, redneck2. I've been on both sides of the counter, and have seen (and experienced) my share of employees trying to push their idea of the "Überpistole" <Cough, cough, Glock, 1911< Cough, cough> on people it was ill-suited for. I realize inventory is there to be sold, but there's something to be said for building a customer base, too. Case in point;

I worked at a famous Sporting Goods store in the State I grew up in. A guy came in announced he had $1100 on him, and wanted a Weatherby in 7mm Weatherby Mag. I asked him where out West he was going, (making conversation and finding out intended use) and he said, "It's for deer hunting here in MN." I asked, " OK, what type of terrain? What's the average shot where you hunt?" His answer: 75-100 yards. (I had hunted that area before, so I skipped the "Are the deer that tough there?" ) So then I asked him " Just curious. Why a 7mm Wea. Mag.? That's usually an elk and mule deer gun." His answer; "Well my buddy I hunt with has one, and he drops his deer on the spot every time." "uh-huh", says I. " And have you had a problem having to track deer you've shot with....what gun ? " His reply: "Well, I haven't got a shot yet with the Winchester .30-30 I borrow, but I want to make sure I don't have to trail one."
"Has the .30-30 shot well for you at the range?"
"Well, yeah, I can hit a pie tin at 50 yards most the time."
"OK. Here's my suggestion, and it's gonna save you lots of money: Since you are already familiar with the Win. 94 in .30-30, let's get you setup with a 94 AE, put a good 2-7x scope on it to tighten up those groups, and get you enough practice ammo for that, and some good hunting rounds, too. With mounts, and I'll throw in the boresight, and a case, you'll have about $400 left. And you'll have a much better rifle for deer hunting where you hunt. Let me guess; your buddy goes out West sometimes?"
"Yes, mule deer hunting."
" Have you ever shot his 7mm?"
"No, but I watched him at the range, it's loud!"
" Yes, and the recoil is punishing. It's way more gun than what you need for deer. You'll be much better off with this rifle, and you can take your wife out to dinner with some of what you saved."
An hour later, after I set it up, boresighted it, and explained how to sight it in, which ammo to use at the range and which for hunting, he left a happy man.
My boss, OTOH, was pissed as hell, because there was a 7mm Weatherby sitting in back in a very dusty box. I explained to him, that guy will be a customer for life, and will spend much more than that Weatherby is worth. We'd never see him again if I'd have sold him the Weatherby, and you know it.
Guy came back in Dec. with pics of his 6 pointer, first deer ever. Took my advice, sighted it in so he was getting 2" groups at 50 yards, got a nice shot. His wife was a lot happier, she had some shopping money and a nice dinner, and he said he was a customer for life.

There are new buyers who may not have a friend, parent or other knowledgeable gun person to help them.
A local gun store should be able to provide guidance and to help a new buyer to make a smart purchase.

A big box store would try to do the same thing but their minimum wage help may be just as ignorant on the needs of a newbie.

If I walk into a gun shop, I expect help from someone with knowledge. If I walk into a Walmart, I expect them to be able to pick up what I point to.
The one who suffers is the one who knows no better and walks into a minimum wage box store and expects the clerk to guide them to the right choice.
They don't know any better because all they do know is that Big Box Store sells guns so they must know what they are talking about.
That is where we all pay the price..... the uneducated teaching the uneducated and in the end, the new buyer never takes to the gun world because they were never taught the right way. I do not know the answer because there are quite a few morons at the gun counter in the gun store who think they know more than they truly do and end up selling a small and light weight .357 to the granny who wants a night stand gun because granny liked the pink color.

Good luck to the posters who said that the minimum wage clerk at the gun counter at Gunmart should be able to guide them thru anything more than looking it up on the internet. I doubt any poster here would work for minimum wage at a Gunmart because their experience means something in the wage world. The kid making minimum wage works there because he has no other training. You get what you pay for.

Just because someone work at a gun store does not make them a fountain of knowledge. Was the OP incapable of looking for SWC, WC, JFP, etc.?

When I walk in the gun department at Scheels they call my by my first name.

I'm trying to imagine the kind of store where you can actually expect a high level of expertise about products as diverse as firearms, ammo and accessories. Technology stores generally break things down by department, so the TV guy knows TVs and not computers. Gun shops can't maintain specialized staff because they are too small.

entropy

Now that's a salesman! Great story and well done!

Thats how most of the stores here are for me. They may not know my name but all the counter guys, or gals, atleast recognize me. Ive taken the time to hangout and talk to them, i always buy something even if its small like a box of bullets, or even a soda.

After a couple trips, mostly just standing to the side and keeping the counter workers company when they arnt busy, they will ask questions or pass other customers questions to me about stuff they arnt familiar with. Ive found that even a couple who ive heard say some stuff that wasnt right, werent doing it on purpose.

Usually the customers ive talked to, and helped (never without the clerks suggestion, or a direct question from the costumer), only say stupid stuff when they have read it on the internet or heard it from a friend who should know better....then sometimes theres the "friend"

GAF said:

When I walk in the gun department at Scheels they call my by my first name.

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There are two pawn shops around here that start pulling guns down for me to look at even before I get to the gun counter.