bannockburn
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- Apr 24, 2007
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JohnnyK
Very cool fun gun/toy! Congrats all the way around.
Very cool fun gun/toy! Congrats all the way around.
1 month until my new crown jewel arrives....
- Thread starter JohnnyK
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gunownerz
Member
This. Is. Glorious. Well done. Congrats.
Very cool. I believe Trent on here was awaiting one of these from someone or other (how many guys could possibly be making these, right?)
TCB
Yup, sent Dave my check last week. ETA 1.5 weeks, give or take. Been waiting a long time for one.
Hanzo581
Member
Not the route I would have taken but enjoy!
However, I still think that dropping 4k on a firearm of such marginal utility is well, quite frankly, nuts.
Did the OP honestly expect tummy rubs and congratulations all around?
Especially considering that $4,000 will get you into a GAP-10 and glass.
I dunno, maybe I need to loosen up, but I don't have much use for toys like this. Wiggling my index finger and watching dirt kick up on the berm just isn't fun for me.
Yeah you might need to loosen up.
I've spent 1/2 as much as this on some belt feds, 2x more than this on some belt feds, and 3x more on even other belt feds.. all semi-automatic.
Doesn't matter if I put $4,000 or $400,000 down, it will not buy me in to ANY full auto weapons in Illinois. And I can't move (5 kids, business, etc.). Truth be told, I have much less interest in full auto than I had in my 20's - mainly because of the cost / scarcity of ammo today.
What *is* fascinating is tearing these down, seeing what makes them tick. Understanding what made them tick faster in a previous life. And what was done to make them tick slower in their current incarnation.
Also, I with the accuracy some of these guns are capable of, I wouldn't want to discount their effectiveness if deployed in their original roles. Are they going to be as good stopping a cavalry charge? No, but we haven't seen one of those in a century. They're still capable of putting a LOT of accurate fire downrange, though. The only real difference from a machinegunners playbook is you won't be effective with plunging fire on a group in defilade.
Other than that, you've got range, suppression capability, etc.
No idea on the belt loader. I have two belt loaders; one for the PKM/Maxim, and one for the vz 37. Of the two, the PKM one would be more likely to work as it shares the cartridge with the UK Vz 58... but with the belt style.. don't know!
I *do* know my vz 37 belts are *absolute devils* to load without the belt loader. They're by far the most difficult of all the belt feds. (Even the monster DSHK is simple to load by comparison).
Hopefully (won't know until it's here), the UK vz 58 is easier to deal with.
Curious to see if they changed the tripod configuration from the vz 37, would hate to track down (yet another) damn tripod.
All of the "open bolt machineguns" which are converted to semiauto have the addition of a striker - a separate chunk of metal that hangs back on the sear while the rest of the bolt goes in to battery. (DSHK, RPD, PKM, Vz 37).
On some rifles this striker is made of a piece of the original block, bandsaw cut off of the original bolt group - just whacked right off the back (RPD, DSHK). On other rifles, the striker is a newly manufactured component.
Essentially it turns the back of the bolt, which generally operates in open-bolt slam-fire mode, to a two piece affair that has two springs - one for the bolt assembly, one for the striker.
Other closed bolt / hammer fire / sear fired guns had trigger pack modifications to fire in single-shot, but the bolt itself received minimal (if any) modifications to accommodate single fire. (My german MG-34, MG-42 are like this). This moves the complexity of the changes from the actual operating mechanism to the trigger group. It also means that replacement parts for the wear pieces are MUCH easier to obtain, and don't require custom fitting (generally).
(The trigger group on open bolt machineguns such as RPD, DSHK, Sten, vz 37, etc is really nothing more than a lever that moves another lever out of the way from a ledge on the bottom of the bolt... people don't understand how insanely simple some machinegun designs are, nothing "complex" at all about them!)
Closed bolt machineguns are much more complex (if you ever get the opportunity to examine an MG34 bolt, you'll see more machining required than in an entire M14 rifle...). Whereas open bolt machineguns are exceptionally simple.
Funny, but the simpler the machinegun, sometimes the harder it is to make it work semi-auto.
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i called malcolmar and they said they should be able to ship next week!
Mine should be shipping about the same time. Got an e-mail asking for my FFL info today. Can't wait!
I do get it. Very much so. I think it would be a really fun gun, as well as a gun that definitely fills the roll of the original purpose/intent of the 2A much better than many of the rifles most of us have. It's good to know a guy with a gun like this one.
Yeah these belts (from the pictures I've seen now), doesn't look bad at all, at least, compared to the evil fully-enclosed Zb Vz 37 belts, or the type A RPD belts.
EDIT: Dave says run these wet (lots of lube) for a while for the break in. Milled receivers need a bit of time to break in.
ill be using froglube which is nontoxic and treats the metal... see how it works... i loaded a 250 round belt in about 10-15 mins and came up with a neat trick that helps loading go pretty fast.... i can make a utube vid to explain as loaders are nonexistant... are you going to get the rail for the vz 59 Trent? its a project in the works... i think a red dot would be a sweet option on one of these rifles.
xxjumbojimboxx
Member
Make sure you clean the living you know what outta that gun if your running that surplus silvertip stuff that comes in 880 round crates..ok so I took the plunge... after 2 years of busting my ass... 70-80+ hour weeks... over 900 hours of studying for 1 test (took 3 tries to pass) while working full time to pass high school math content exam... I got my first teaching contract and as my reward I'm getting a vz 59 from Malcolmar Firearms... down payment is en route... I've got 880 rounds of 7.62x 54r en route along with 2 250 round belts and cans.... the gun will also come with another 250 round belt and can and a 50 round belt and can also... I can't wait to load all the belts and break this baby in properly
now waiting is the hard part...
http://www.marcolmarfirearms.com/images/2296367be4d35289a3e043a4d79a112f.jpg
It would be a damn shame to destroy the barrel/chamber. and maybe the receiver of such a nice gun because you shot corrosive ammo and didn't clean it.
Congrats By the way... Id love to have one.
froglube treats metal and prevents rust... i just shot a few hundred rounds of corrosive in a different ak left it for a week before cleaning it and not a lick of rust and i live in humid Houston.... i'll certainly be clening this one... alot as ill be using it alot and yes my ammo does come in groups of 880....
and yes my ammo does come in groups of 880.... xxjumbojimboxx
Member
Why risk it?
Yeah this rifle is going to be MUCH harder to clean than anything else you've ever shot. You need to thoroughly wash *all* of the parts which are exposed to gas when shooting the old soviet bloc surplus. Sometimes, more than once.
Pay special attention to carbon foul up around the piston, etc. You need to use a scraper of some type (I generally use a flat head screwdriver) to get all of it out / off the parts.
Last time I ran corrosive through my MG-42 it took 4 nights to finally get it to stop spotting. PKM isn't quite so bad, I can generally get it all in one shot. Difference there is recoil impulse method for cycling the action is delayed blowback (forcing cone) on the MG42. Makes gas get *EVERYWHERE*.
Not sure how bad these will be, if it's anything like other piston operated belt guns I have, shouldn't be too big of a deal to clean. Just judicious soap & hot HOT water. Then blow dry all the nooks and crannies with air compressor. Leave dry overnight, see if anything spots up the next day; repeat, when it comes back clean you can be sure it's good, THEN apply oil. (Otherwise, you're just delaying the corrosion with the oil for 2-3 months, and you'll find a nasty surprise next time you get it out.. currently dealing with that with my MG34... didn't get the shroud vent holes good enough last time and now have rings of rust in all of them halfway up the barrel.)
Pay special attention to carbon foul up around the piston, etc. You need to use a scraper of some type (I generally use a flat head screwdriver) to get all of it out / off the parts.
Last time I ran corrosive through my MG-42 it took 4 nights to finally get it to stop spotting. PKM isn't quite so bad, I can generally get it all in one shot. Difference there is recoil impulse method for cycling the action is delayed blowback (forcing cone) on the MG42. Makes gas get *EVERYWHERE*.
Not sure how bad these will be, if it's anything like other piston operated belt guns I have, shouldn't be too big of a deal to clean. Just judicious soap & hot HOT water. Then blow dry all the nooks and crannies with air compressor. Leave dry overnight, see if anything spots up the next day; repeat, when it comes back clean you can be sure it's good, THEN apply oil. (Otherwise, you're just delaying the corrosion with the oil for 2-3 months, and you'll find a nasty surprise next time you get it out.. currently dealing with that with my MG34... didn't get the shroud vent holes good enough last time and now have rings of rust in all of them halfway up the barrel.)
Chrome lined isn't corrosion proof. Not by a LONG stretch.
I've had chromed parts rust within a week after being exposed to corrosive ammo.
All it does is change the "The sun never sets on a dirty barrel" phrase to "Yeah I can get around to it tomorrow morning."
But not by tomorrow evening.
I've had chromed parts rust within a week after being exposed to corrosive ammo.
All it does is change the "The sun never sets on a dirty barrel" phrase to "Yeah I can get around to it tomorrow morning."
But not by tomorrow evening.
InkEd
Member
I am jealous!
Good thing 54R is cheap on a teacher's salary it will be impossible to feed a similar weapon in a NATO caliber.
Good thing 54R is cheap on a teacher's salary it will be impossible to feed a similar weapon in a NATO caliber.
The PKM belt loader won't work. Its a different style of feed. The PKM pulls the round out of the belt and drops into a set of "feed lips" in the feed tray. When the bolt goes forward it pushes the round out of the feed tray and into the barrel. When it recoils it pulls the next round out of the belt and drops it in the feed tray ready to fire again. On the Vz59 the belt is a push through belt like the one for the MG42 or M60. What this means to you for belt loaders is that the PKM belt loader won't work even though its the same round. There are loaders for the Vz59 and we are looking at coming up with something better then the factory unit too. First things first though, the guns have to get done and shipped before the add-ons and toys. We are working on getting some original loaders, tripods and other goodies but it takes time.
As for cleaning the most important parts are of course the barrel, the flash hider, the gasblock, the piston/op-rod and the front end of the receiver. Its a good idea to clean the bolt up as well. You can shoot corrosive ammo in these and they are intended for that. The Czechs did not chrome everything like the russians however so some parts are more susceptible to rusting than others. We did have the barrels chromed and that will help but the simplest way of keeping them clean and rust free is washing them up with soap and water. Corrosive ammo isn't like liquid chlorine or nitric acid. It won't dissolve the gun overnight. What corrosive ammo does is leave a salt of potassium in the areas contacted by the hot gas from firing. The primers are made with potassium perchlorate or potassium chlorate and when the round is fired this becomes potassium chloride. This is the potassium analog of table salt....sodium chloride. What it does in the metal of your rifle is attract and hold moisture which corrodes the iron in the steel forming iron oxide. The simple cure for it is to run hot water through the parts to dissolve and wash away this salt. You can use other water based solvents though they don't do as well as simple old water. Adding soap helps to lower the surface tension of the water so it makes better contact with what it comes up against. Adding ammonia does nothing to help as the salt is not soluble in ammonia. If you use solvents like Hoppes or any of the other rifle bore solvents you will not remove the salt and unless you bury your parts in thick grease or an inert gas atmosphere you will get some rust. Using the bore cleaner after washing is a good idea but using it before the water wash is not. It will leave a film of oil or solvent on the metal that prevents the water from contacting the salt and dissolving it. You can try this very simple experiment at home and see it for yourself....
take a teaspoon of salt and put it in a small container or cup. Add some water and swirl it around. Look and see if there is still any salt in the bottom of the container. If there is than add more water and swirl again. Once you no longer see crystalline salt in the cup dump it and rinse a couple times. Add a little more water and swirl then take a taste. Do you taste salt?
Now try the same experiment with cooking oil or any other oily solvent. See if it dissolves the salt. Don't try the taste test with this stuff but you'll be able to see and feel the salt in the bottom of the container.
This is what happens in your gun. Use something that dissolves the salt and you'll have no issues with corrosive ammo. Look at all the surplus guns we've bought over the last 20 years and ask yourself how they kept them so clean and free of corrosion. Most all of them were fired with corrosive ammo for many years yet they are still shiny. Ask soldiers who carried these things how it was done and they'll tell you about cleaning parties around the campfire and boiling pots of water. Its simple and nothing to worry about. Use water first, then use your solvent or don't, then use a good oil or grease to cover the surface with a protective layer.
Hope that helps
Frank
As for cleaning the most important parts are of course the barrel, the flash hider, the gasblock, the piston/op-rod and the front end of the receiver. Its a good idea to clean the bolt up as well. You can shoot corrosive ammo in these and they are intended for that. The Czechs did not chrome everything like the russians however so some parts are more susceptible to rusting than others. We did have the barrels chromed and that will help but the simplest way of keeping them clean and rust free is washing them up with soap and water. Corrosive ammo isn't like liquid chlorine or nitric acid. It won't dissolve the gun overnight. What corrosive ammo does is leave a salt of potassium in the areas contacted by the hot gas from firing. The primers are made with potassium perchlorate or potassium chlorate and when the round is fired this becomes potassium chloride. This is the potassium analog of table salt....sodium chloride. What it does in the metal of your rifle is attract and hold moisture which corrodes the iron in the steel forming iron oxide. The simple cure for it is to run hot water through the parts to dissolve and wash away this salt. You can use other water based solvents though they don't do as well as simple old water. Adding soap helps to lower the surface tension of the water so it makes better contact with what it comes up against. Adding ammonia does nothing to help as the salt is not soluble in ammonia. If you use solvents like Hoppes or any of the other rifle bore solvents you will not remove the salt and unless you bury your parts in thick grease or an inert gas atmosphere you will get some rust. Using the bore cleaner after washing is a good idea but using it before the water wash is not. It will leave a film of oil or solvent on the metal that prevents the water from contacting the salt and dissolving it. You can try this very simple experiment at home and see it for yourself....
take a teaspoon of salt and put it in a small container or cup. Add some water and swirl it around. Look and see if there is still any salt in the bottom of the container. If there is than add more water and swirl again. Once you no longer see crystalline salt in the cup dump it and rinse a couple times. Add a little more water and swirl then take a taste. Do you taste salt?
Now try the same experiment with cooking oil or any other oily solvent. See if it dissolves the salt. Don't try the taste test with this stuff but you'll be able to see and feel the salt in the bottom of the container.
This is what happens in your gun. Use something that dissolves the salt and you'll have no issues with corrosive ammo. Look at all the surplus guns we've bought over the last 20 years and ask yourself how they kept them so clean and free of corrosion. Most all of them were fired with corrosive ammo for many years yet they are still shiny. Ask soldiers who carried these things how it was done and they'll tell you about cleaning parties around the campfire and boiling pots of water. Its simple and nothing to worry about. Use water first, then use your solvent or don't, then use a good oil or grease to cover the surface with a protective layer.
Hope that helps
Frank
JohnnyK... something arrived in the mail today. You get yours yet?
The craftsmanship is outstanding. You certainly did well picking out a fine belt fed. The machining, fit, and finish is better than my PKM.
When the Government trusts me enough to pick it up I'll post some more detailed shots. (Got a 24 hour wait in IL on long guns, did the 4473 today...)
The craftsmanship is outstanding. You certainly did well picking out a fine belt fed. The machining, fit, and finish is better than my PKM.
When the Government trusts me enough to pick it up I'll post some more detailed shots. (Got a 24 hour wait in IL on long guns, did the 4473 today...)
Waiting to hear from JohnnyK, don't want to step on his toes. This is his first belt fed and he's worked hard for it.
I will say one thing, what a piece of work these are. The original log for the gun was shipped with the gunners toolkit, shows it being unissued. All of the parts are brand-spanking-new in these things. How they managed to get ahold of unissued guns to get torched and imported ... that is something. These things are pristine.
I will say one thing, what a piece of work these are. The original log for the gun was shipped with the gunners toolkit, shows it being unissued. All of the parts are brand-spanking-new in these things. How they managed to get ahold of unissued guns to get torched and imported ... that is something. These things are pristine.
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