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100 yd Handgun Shooting

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by David E, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. David E

    David E Well-Known Member

    Post #44 shows the technique perfectly.

    How much sight is above the rear depends on range, gun and load.
  2. kingcheese

    kingcheese Well-Known Member

    Ok, so its something that if i used the same load, and the same gun, i could mark the front sight if i wanted to
  3. hentown

    hentown Well-Known Member

    Try the proven Elmer Keith method that's mentioned several times in this thread.
  4. mavracer

    mavracer Well-Known Member

    Absolutely. Some use gold or brass lines IE this one by Clements custom guns
  5. kingcheese

    kingcheese Well-Known Member

  6. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Well-Known Member

    Actually, I expect that works for many elevations. With a red insert, I like "broken line", "More broken line", then "same distance above red insert", "broken line above red insert", "level with red insert" and so on. This breaks the elevations down into approximately 0.01" increments, or about 6" per increment at 100 yards.
  7. Japle

    Japle Well-Known Member

    Playing with the Wichita today at the range. It’s chambered for the 7R cartridge (30-30 necked to 7mm with a modified shoulder). I was sighting it in. The rings had to be replaced. The old ones were cheap Weaver rings that weren’t holding zero. I swapped them out for a set of Leupold rings.

    The load was a surplus 139 gr steel FMJ pulled from who-knows-what-round over 22.5 gr of H322, producing 1673 fps. I could load a lot hotter than that, but there’s no reason for it.

    Not the best photo. The top group is 1 3/8” and the bottom one is 1 1/8” I pulled the shot at 8:00. The other four are in 5/8”

    Shot at 50 yds from a rest.

  8. k_dawg

    k_dawg Well-Known Member

    I choose not to use the traditional Elmer Keith method. That conflates with proper sighting for defensive purposes.

    I find maintaining proper sighting and utalizing hold over to be more effective ( for me ) as well as creating a confused muscle memory of training.
  9. David E

    David E Well-Known Member

    Does "proper sighting for defensive purposes" include totally covering up your target with your gun?

    It's almost like saying "I don't shoot revolvers, as it'll conflate with semi-autos."

    That said, do what works best for you.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
  10. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Well-Known Member

    How do you estimate hold over when you can't see the target?

    When you hold over with iron sights, the sights block out the target -- as one poster on this thread has already commented.
  11. StrawHat

    StrawHat Well-Known Member

    Shooting at one hundred yards ...and defensive shooting. Two entirely different disciplines. More than muscle confusion!
  12. David E

    David E Well-Known Member

    But it is possible to take a longer shot than the indoor range allows.

    In my department, one of the guys had to take an 85 yd shot at a badguy shooting at other officers. He hit him, ending the shooting.

    I wonder how he could've made the hit if he completely covered up the target with his gun.
  13. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

    What do you do with a gun that is designed to have the target behind the front sight David E? There are lots of them around. Too many people think the sights are just off when they see that method employed but those people are wrong. And besides that every gun is different and every cartridge is different. What happens when you switch from a very fast, flat shooting cartridge and bullet to one that shoots slow and drops a good bit? You do understand you have to aim higher with the second gun, right? What happens when you still can't get enough holdover by just changing the sight picture? My S&W 629 shoots perfect at close range using the sight picture someone said was an Elmer Keith drawing. It also shoots slightly to the right of where the sights aim. If I waited around to find a perfectly aimed pistol I'd be waiting a long time. In the meantime I can hit what I want to shoot at much longer distances than the system you describe can compensate for. I can hit a man size target at 175 yards with the S&W I mentioned. And trust me I have to hold over a good bit to do it. How do I keep my eyes on the target? That's why we have two eyes. Well that's one reason anyway. I can tell if my target has moved with my off eye when shooting distances like that.

    I described a method of shooting very long distances with revolvers earlier. It involves shooting the handgun upside down so the sights can still be used and the target can still be seen. The longest handgun shots I've ever seen were done using that method. I believe it was Bob Munden that was doing it. I saw it on tv a few years back.

    There are many methods for aiming a gun friend. If I limited myself to a single method or two I would find I couldn't hit the target nearly as often. I've picked up other people's handguns and fired them once to find how the sights aimed then hit a very small target from a long distance on the second shot. Those people had tried all day to hit that target. I hit it on the second shot. The difference was they were determined to aim the way the book says to aim. I aimed according to how the gun shot. That's why I hit the target and they didn't. I was actually called to come out and demonstrate how to shoot a handgun that day. The people I was demonstrating for nearly fell off their feet when I hit the bottom of that pop can at 40 yards on the second shot. I didn't think it was a particularly hard shot.

    There's more than one way to skin a cat my friend. If you can find a pistol that aims perfectly that's great. But I have several handguns that aim the way I described earlier where the target is actually covered by the front blade. If I didn't shoot them accordingly I'd never hit anything with them. But I do hit things quite often using those handguns. In fact I was just knocking a pop can around yesterday using my XDm .40 by using the method of blocking out the target with the front blade. If I aimed it with the blade at the bottom of the notch I would have missed badly.
  14. coolluke01

    coolluke01 Well-Known Member

    Video or it didn't happen.

    You have lots of words and no proof and very little understanding.

    That being said, if that's what you like and it works fine. But you can't say there isn't a better or right way simply because you claim to have some success with your way.
    There is a better way to do this. It has been explained and the reasons for it have been shown.

    This switching from different calibers and point of impact in relation to point of aim do not change how one should aim for long range shooting.
    The arbitrary way you hold over in midair will change from gun to gun and caliber to caliber.
  15. David E

    David E Well-Known Member

    Not sure what Cee Zee's point is.

    Sure, there are different ways to hold the sights. Some of those ways are stupid. Some work very well.

    I prefer to utilize the methods that work best.

    I made 100 yd hits using 4 nearly sightless pocket pistols, just to prove to my student it could be done. Even better, HE made hits with just a few shots with all the same guns, too, proving that with proper technique, it's not that difficult to hit a 100 yd target.
  16. David E

    David E Well-Known Member

    You do realize the rear sight is adjustable for windage....right?
  17. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Well-Known Member

    Which guns are designed to have the target behind the front sight?

    Let's see. Suppose we measure from the back face of the rear sight to the back face of the front sight, and find the distance to be 6". The target is 100 yards (3600 inches) away. So the ratio of sight radius to target distance is 1:600. By holding up an inch of front sight, my shot will impact 600 inches (50 feet) higher at 100 yards.

    I'm shooting a .45 Colt, zeroed for 50 yards. At 100 yards, with a normal hold, the bullet will impact 6" low. That means to put the bullet on target, I don't need to hold up an inch of front sight, or even a tenth of an inch. I only need to hold up a mere hundredth of an inch -- barely enough to see when the gun is held at arm's length.

    If we move the target back to 200 yards, that one inch of front sight subtends 100 feet at the target. If I hold up a mere tenth of an inch of front sight, the bullet will impact 10 feet higher.

    How am I not going to have enough holdover at any range short of a thousand yards?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the S&W 629 have adjustable sights? Why wait for a "perfectly aimed" pistol? Just take a couple of clicks right windage!!
  18. otasan56

    otasan56 Well-Known Member

    Good shooting, sir.
  19. Esoxchaser

    Esoxchaser Well-Known Member

    My the 11 year old couldn't believe it when after a couple of mags he was consistently smacking a Do-All reactive target ball at 100 yards with his Ruger Mark III Hunter with the stock open vee sights. What really amused him was the lag time between pulling the trigger and the ball moving indicating impact.
  20. David E

    David E Well-Known Member

    Great way to start them young!

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