14.5" or 16" barrel for AR15?
- Thread starter Alex45ACP
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B.D. Turner
Member
I like an 11 inch heavy machine gun barrel on an AR with a five inch supressor. I have built several and all will get a 4" or smaller off hand at 100yds. Why not go with a 16"? I like the balance of the shorter heavy barrel gives. I also like the way the long supressor works.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
16" - I just don't like permanent muzzle devices. They make the rifle a pain to work on and I like to be able to work on them.
Chipperman
Member
If money were no object, then I'd get the 14.5" and SBR whatever it was going on. If it's a machine gun, it does not matter anyway.
If it's a non-NFA lower and you do not want to SBR it, then get the 16" for the reasons Bartholomew stated
If it's a non-NFA lower and you do not want to SBR it, then get the 16" for the reasons Bartholomew stated
Rem700SD
Member
14.5" invloves an SBR, 16" no sbr. Is 1.5" worth the paperwork?
10-Ring
Member
I'd go 16" 
Erinyes
Member
16." If you're not going to do NFA paperwork, you might as well get that little extra velocity out of it...
The Grand Inquisitor
Member
14.5. Again, not worth the extra hassle for less than two inches. Also, the big, permenant, brake is a hassle at times.
rangerruck
Member
i'd like mine to not all apart within 5000 rounds. so i'll go 16 inch , 20 inch if I had my druthers.
i have a 14.5" with the permanent flash hider. having carried a regular 16", that 1.5" makes a world of difference. i don't know how often you might deploy a rifle from inside a car, or search a building, but 1.5" is very noticeable when you cut that off the end of your rifle.
as far as being a pain to work on...well, i bought an AR-15 because i intend to shoot it. i don't want to have to tinker with it to make it reliable, or screw it up and make it unreliable. i depend on it too much.
as far as being a pain to work on...well, i bought an AR-15 because i intend to shoot it. i don't want to have to tinker with it to make it reliable, or screw it up and make it unreliable. i depend on it too much.
RainDownmyBlues
Member
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My choice is 20... You shouldn't be doing drive by's anyway man
Lebben-B
Member
16" for the greater MV.
The Grand Inquisitor
Member
If you really fel like dragging this thing around in vehicles and what not, guy buy a Polish Tantal in 5.45.
Very compact, great cartridge, and a finely built rifle to boot.
PS - Last time I check, a 14.5 inch rifle with a 1.5 inch brake is the same as a 16 inch rifle...
Very compact, great cartridge, and a finely built rifle to boot.
PS - Last time I check, a 14.5 inch rifle with a 1.5 inch brake is the same as a 16 inch rifle...
Chipperman
Member
Not if the 16" has a flash hider screwed onto it.
Grunt
Member
My M-4 at work has the 14.5" barrel and my M-4gery at home has the 16 inch barrel. I really notice the difference in the length and the handling. I'm thinking of getting one of the 14.7" barrels with the permenant A2 compnesator one of these days to swap out on my personal weapon.
SigfanUSAF
Member
14.5" w/ Smith Enterprises Vortex flash eliminator perm.attached! Just need to sell my Wilson 16" R-4 barrel to do it!
JNewell
Member
Chipperman is right, but
1. I'd rather have a 17" tube with 16" of bore than a 16" tube with 14.5" of bore - 5.56x45 benefits from the extra 100 fps or so of velocity
2. I'd rather not have had someone solder/braze/weld anything onto the muzzle of my rifle.
YMMV and lots of folks' does.
1. I'd rather have a 17" tube with 16" of bore than a 16" tube with 14.5" of bore - 5.56x45 benefits from the extra 100 fps or so of velocity
2. I'd rather not have had someone solder/braze/weld anything onto the muzzle of my rifle.
YMMV and lots of folks' does.
MachIVshooter
Member
The point here is that that barrel has to be at least 16" for no NFA paperwork, so why not have 16" of bore that accelerates your projectile? I keep seeing these 11" AR's with 5" permanent flashhiders an I ask why? you're not getting a handier or lighter rifle, all you're doing is sacrificing 200+ FPS. The 5.56mm round pins all of it's effectiveness on high velocity, so to cut velocity without gaining any other favorable attributes is, quite frankly, stupid.
If you want a super-short AR, get a pistol version.
How many of you guys bashing the 14.5" barrels have ever actually had and used one?
As with anything, your decision should be based off of how you plan to use this rifle. If you are looking for a basic, do-it all type AR then the 16" is probably your best compromise.
That does not mean the 16" barrel is better then a 14.5" barrel. I have both I can tell you the difference in handling, balance and maneuverability is very noticeable. If you are looking for a CQB\HD\SHTF type AR, I would select a 14.5" model without hesitation.
Yes, the 16" barrels have more MV but at the distances you, as a civilian, would likely ever actually use an AR against a human target (<~100-125yrds), the difference is meaningless.
Also don't be fooled into thinking that somehow a permanently attached FH somehow makes an AR harder to service. The only thing having a FH permanently attached stops you from doing is completely removing the FSB (without cutting it off which is another option depending on what your end goal is?). The only reasons you would typically ever remove the FSB is if later you decided to install a 1 piece FF rail and\or if you needed to remove\replace the barrel nut. Contrary to what Internet discussion forums would have you believe, that is not common or in most cases needed. If you do decide later you want a FF rail, there are a number or 2 piece options that you can install that do not require removing the FSB or replacing the barrel nut
Keep in mind, worse case you can always removing the FH. That's right, a "permanently attached" FH is a misnomer. They are not permanently attached. They can be removed and depending on how they were "permanently attached", the usual worst case is that the FH is ruined and will need to be replaced with a new one.
As with anything, your decision should be based off of how you plan to use this rifle. If you are looking for a basic, do-it all type AR then the 16" is probably your best compromise.
That does not mean the 16" barrel is better then a 14.5" barrel. I have both I can tell you the difference in handling, balance and maneuverability is very noticeable. If you are looking for a CQB\HD\SHTF type AR, I would select a 14.5" model without hesitation.
Yes, the 16" barrels have more MV but at the distances you, as a civilian, would likely ever actually use an AR against a human target (<~100-125yrds), the difference is meaningless.
Also don't be fooled into thinking that somehow a permanently attached FH somehow makes an AR harder to service. The only thing having a FH permanently attached stops you from doing is completely removing the FSB (without cutting it off which is another option depending on what your end goal is?). The only reasons you would typically ever remove the FSB is if later you decided to install a 1 piece FF rail and\or if you needed to remove\replace the barrel nut. Contrary to what Internet discussion forums would have you believe, that is not common or in most cases needed. If you do decide later you want a FF rail, there are a number or 2 piece options that you can install that do not require removing the FSB or replacing the barrel nut
Keep in mind, worse case you can always removing the FH. That's right, a "permanently attached" FH is a misnomer. They are not permanently attached. They can be removed and depending on how they were "permanently attached", the usual worst case is that the FH is ruined and will need to be replaced with a new one.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Another good thing to keep in mind about SOME permanently attached muzzle devices (not all):
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=295343
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=295343
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Either go the NFA route and do SBR and go all the way down to 11.5", or go on up to 20 and realize the full potential of the rifle and the round.
14.5 and 16 are just compromises.
Had one, moved on down to 11.5. That way I can have a can on and still not be overly long.
Saw no advantage to the 14.5 at all, especially vs the 16.
If you have a need for CQB and you don't mind doing the whole SBR thing, then go on down to 11.5 and consider a suppressor.
You know you want to do that anyway
If you are not worried about close quarters, then get the 20".
14.5 and 16 are just compromises.
Had one, moved on down to 11.5. That way I can have a can on and still not be overly long.
Saw no advantage to the 14.5 at all, especially vs the 16.
If you have a need for CQB and you don't mind doing the whole SBR thing, then go on down to 11.5 and consider a suppressor.
You know you want to do that anyway
If you are not worried about close quarters, then get the 20".
You're not really trying to use an example of a hack job to somehow make a point that a 16" barrel is the better choice are you?
Life is full of compromises. Hell many would argue the AR itself is a compromise but if you don't want to compromise, why set the limits at 11.5" and 20"? LMT makes a 10.5" upper that runs as well as any of the 11.5" uppers and if you truly want the most MV go all the way to a 24" barrel!
I have to tell you, I find that statement a little hard to believe. Not that I know that many people but I don't know of anybody who has handled and shot both and still feels there is no noticeable difference between the two. The 14.5" handles and balances much better. That's important to me but I can acknowledge that some people don't find that as important just as I don't find the MV difference between the 2 very important.
I think we can bot agree that is not an option for everybody. Some simply can't because of legal issues in their state. Others do not want to have their lowers registered with the federal gov. and have to get permission to take them out of state. Others simply don't want to have to pay $200 tax for the "privilege" (+ another $200 if they get a suppressor too).
Honestly, I have given serious thought to getting an 11.5 AR. In fact, I'm on a waiting list for the Colt LE1033 (11.5" piston driven upper) but for the sake of this discussion I think we should stick to 14.5" vs. 16" as that is what the original poster asked about. As far as I see it, there are 3 main differences between them...
1. MV
2. OAL, balance and handling
3. The 14.5's legal need for a permanent muzzle attachment
For me and my purposes, the difference between the 2 for #1 is close enough to be meaningless AFAIC. #2 however is very important and I think #3 is not near as big of an issue as some make it out to be. Add that to the fact that the 14.5" is as short as I can go without a tax stamp or ridiculously long muzzle device and for me, that makes it a winner. YMMV
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
You can find that statement any way you wish but the fact remains that by the time you put on optics, BUIS, possibly a change in stock etc, any "balance" difference of that 1.5" barrel length is gone. And if you're not willing to go down the NFA route, you limit yourself even further with the 14.5 by having to fool with that "permanent attachment" BS.
I would agree with you on the MV issue, the difference isn't worth fooling with.
As for going to extremes, both the 10.5 and 24" barrels are fine, but not a "standard" type of offering, and all the problems that come with that.
11.5, 14.5, 16, and 20 are the "standard" lengths and therefore you have lots to choose from and a long record of proven reliability.
The 10.5 gets the light dirty anyway....
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
No, I'm pointing out that a soldered muzzle device can have serious corrosion issues. This is relevant because a fair amount of manufacturers do solder and do show poor attention to QC. In addition you would be unlikely to discover the problem within the warranty period of many rifles.
As the link notes, using a blind pinned permanently attached muzzle device solves that problem. Since we're discussing 14.5" v. 16" barrels, that is a handy bit of info for someone purchasing a 14.5" barrel to know.
I realize that for the majority of the Internet the main purpose of a discussion forum is to choose a side, line up on that side and then impugn the manhood of anyone who dares to hold a contrary opinion; but at least here in the technical forums I like to try and keep the "Share what you know, learn what you don't" motto alive. The above link was news to me and I thought it would be good info for this thread.
I understand you feel strongly that the 14.5" option is the best choice for you. That's OK with me. It just isn't the best choice for me.
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