158 grain Fiocchi 9MM - Better hand loads???

[Artofgolf]

Fiocchi has been selling 158g 9MM Luger ammo (I likum' heavy boolits)



My question is - can a hand loader craft a better round than the manufacturer?
Hold on there, big fella!

 

[PistolPete45]

Interesting I load 147 Gr 9MM would love to try these
I am going to look into this I load 158's in my 38's and 357's I like the thought of it . should be real interesting ..

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I do love 158 gr. in .38 and .357....love to try a load in 9mm. I wonder if anyone makes a flat nose 158 gr. .356 bullet that is plated?

VooDoo

 

[LiveLife]

Fiocchi ... 158g 9MM Luger ammo ... My question is - can a hand loader craft a better round than the manufacturer?

Sure. My match loads reduced the shot groups by 40% compared to the most accurate factory ammunition I was able to buy for USPSA matches.

I did a search on THR for verified Hi-Tek coated bullet accuracy but couldn't find much. I did find this on Castboolits forum for Hi-Tek bullets which originated from Australia - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-Tek-coating&p=2307112&viewfull=1#post2307112

... Over 20 years of hangun shooting in Australia.

... There have been a few world champions over the years that have used coated lead bullets ... The current Australian champions and the IPSC world lady's champion all use coated bullets.

... The Australian equivalent of Bullseye shooting all use coated lead.

So, order some MBC 158 gr 38 Spl Hi-Tek coated bullets and resized them to .356" - http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=226&category=5&secondary=9&keywords=

They are 12 BHN, so you can use lower powder charges and still expand the bullet base to seal with the barrel.



Or you can go with MBC 147 gr 9mm Hi-Tek coated bullets - http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=215&category=5&secondary=8&keywords=

 

[Potatohead]

I've had some 158 PPUs before. I think it was 158. It was heavier than anything I'd seen. Shot like crap.

 

[ljnowell]

Years ago I bought a bunch if 158gr SJHP from a less than trustworthy vendor. When I got them they were .3555" diameter instead of .357". I sold a bunch to an uncle that loads them for his 9mm j-frame.

I still have a couple hundred of them in their factory bags of 100 I believe if anyone wants to try them. Definitely open to trades.

 

[Artofgolf]

I was fortunate enough to find some seconds on the Berry's website awhile back. They were originally 38 caliber but mis-struck and, when plated, the diameter was .356. I was hoping to come up with suggestions & insight so I could put them to use. VooDoo, I think you are reading my mind....... scary

some MBC 158 gr 38 Spl Hi-Tek coated bullets and resized them to .356"

Thanks for the link,bds; these would provide a good testing contrast to the plated FP's. Any tips on loading the coated bullets, as I haven't used them before?

 

[gamestalker]

The primary reason I ever started reloading my own was so that I could have better quality ammunition than factory offerings, and I have accomplished that. So yes, a competent reloader can definitely build a higher quality cartridge.

As for 158's, I would love to get my hands on some of those to work up.

GS

 

[PapaG]

I used to load RCBS 38-150KT in the 9 for my P85. Functioned perfectly and was the most accurate bullet in that gun. Load was from one of the "Taffin Tests" articles in American Handgunner. Thinking of running a few through my 92. Sure worked well on pins.

 

[Artofgolf]

Bowling pins

PapaG, I betcha those 150's put a hurting' on those pins. Do you remember the loads you used?

 

[Hondo 60]

My question is - can a hand loader craft a better round than the manufacturer?

Yes absolutely!

For instance: I have a SW Model 10 (38 Special).
Last weekend I picked up a box of Fiocchi 130gr.
I was all over the target with factory ammo.
I then fired my own reloads & consistently put them in the 10 ring.

My gun mentor & friend even spoke up about it.
Once the factory ammo was gone & started using my own, he said that was much better.

(But I like using factory ammo to replace my brass as it gets old.)

I have too many boxes of brass that have 15+ reloads on 'em,
& the primer pockets are gettin just a hair too big.

 

[Artofgolf]

Hey Hondo 60, we are going to push the limits a bit with the 158 grainers. If Fiocchi can sell it, I think we can make it better

I was all over the target with factory ammo. I then fired my own reloads & consistently put them in the 10 ring.

OK new rounds, I hope you are paying attention to that....

 

[Rule3]

Why would you want 158 gr bullets in a 9mm.??

147 grain seem to be about the max for the 9mm.

 

[Artofgolf]

in the 9 for my P85. Functioned perfectly and was the most accurate bullet in that gun.

I think we can come up with a better performing cartridge than Fiocchi and I likum' heavy boolits

 

[rcmodel]

Probably should get a .45 then.

rc

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not a fan of heavy for caliber bullets. (or too light a bullet either)

IMO even the 147gr bullets are too heavy for the 9mm let alone a 158gr bullet. Heavy for caliber bullets IMO just don't perform well in handguns. I feel the same about 180gr bullet in the 38/357. You just can't achieve the proper velocity for the bullet to do what it's supposed to do. NO, I don't believe more velocity is good at all costs but I do believe the creators of handgun cartridges knew more about those cartridges than I do.

You may disagree and I may not be correct but that's how I feel.

IMO for handgun use:
124/125gr bullets for a 9mm
158gr bullets for the 38/357 (or 145gr Silvertips in the .357 Magnum)
200/230gr bullets for the 45 ACP
It's just how I feel...

 

[Potatohead]

I had real bad "luck", or just bad loaded 147gr ammo back when I was shooting factory stuff so I got turned off of the idea of heavy bullets. I got bored ltely and wanted something different and Ive cooked up some pretty successful load with 147s and imr 4756. I like Speer's 147 TMJ. The load is actually right around what the Speer manual calls for with their 147s and 4756. 4.6 gr maybe...? but dont quote me on that.

BTW: I dont believe Nosler makes a 147, do they? Hadn't seen it yet anyways. Would sure like to if it's as good as their 115 JHP. (not sure if they call it a jhp)

 

[Artofgolf]

ArchAngelCD

You may disagree and I may not be correct but that's how I feel.

That's why I like this board; we can respectfully disagree & continue a civil conversation. I think the 9MM Luger is a cartridge that has a lot of possibilities & I've had good results with heavier loads. IMHO, it's not a matter of being correct, but one of personal preference.

IMO for handgun use: 124/125gr bullets for a 9mm

For the vast majority, that's a good call

 

[Rule3]

The only 147 grain shooters I see are the Game Players at the range. They can make power factor with less powder and recoil.

With a 158 grain I image you can shoot at a up angle and lob them into the targets

 

[Artofgolf]

Rule3

With a 158 grain I image you can shoot at a up angle and lob them into the targets

<Mom always told me to aim high>

Just received my VV powder order today from P Valley. Now I can get started on those heavy boolits

Sidebar: Saw a healthy amount of Hodgdon powders @ the LGS today - they even had their first shipment of CFE Pistol out for sale

 

[Wil Terry]

MAJ GEORGE NONTE wrote extensively on this forty years ago. You are not gonna re-invent the wheel nor will you exceed his results. BUT his 'why' is a damnsite more interesting.

 

[JRH6856]

I do love 158 gr. in .38 and .357....love to try a load in 9mm. I wonder if anyone makes a flat nose 158 gr. .356 bullet that is plated?

VooDoo

Xtreme Bullets has a 158g FP sized at .357. I don't know if they do special orders.

 

[Rule3]

MAJ GEORGE NONTE wrote extensively on this forty years ago. You are not gonna re-invent the wheel nor will you exceed his results. BUT his 'why' is a damnsite more interesting.

And what sage words of wisdom did he write bout 158 grain bullets in the 9mm??

How much load data is out there for this bullet in the 9mm?

 

[Artofgolf]

Range Test - 158g Berry's

How much load data is out there for this bullet in the 9mm?

Not a lot So I cobbled together what I could and came up with the following: (15 yds. rested)

First: Fiocchi 158g FMJ 9MM (subsonic)
As the old saying goes: A picture is worth a thousand words.



We have a stringer to port, there matey! Linear progression along the horizontal with one flyer due North

Second Berry's 158g Plated TC FP (also subsonic)

NNW cluster with a tighter group than that "manufactured ammo



Load details listed below. I report; you decide



CAUTION The load data presented is not confirmed by any published reloading manual. It is recommended to be careful when using the information provided.

SEE Post #37 in this thread!

I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!

 

[JRH6856]

^^^Not sure what you did there Artofgolf, but the attachements are all bad.