1858 Remington cylinder pin latch

[LarsUlmann]

Hi Guys,

I got so much from this forum in the past so I am glad to finally give back.

I just want to share a solution for a problem to address the cylinder pin lock on an 1858 Remington in case that the loading lever is removed (not used) anymore.

I can imagine 3 major cases for that:
- to install a scope mount
- to shorten the barrel
- to have a lightning fast cylinder reload

After a long search I found a costly solution for that, provided by Howell as in the link below.
http://www.howellarms.com/parts/1858-remington-cylinder-pin-quick-release

Since I am located in the EU there is no possibility for me to buy this piece of iron from the USA at all, and the only dealer that sells it in EU is having too heavy shipment fees so again it is a no-go for me.

Fortunately I have a 3D printer at home so it took only several hours (7 tries till the final version) to draw and print out one for myself. This version has 2 advantages vs. the Howell-type latch:
- it unlocks/locks automatically so no need to push or pull any part of it
- it uses a videly available spring that can be obtained from any ball pen laying around
As an extra it is much shorter than any other version so when using a black PLA it is remains practically unnoticed on the gun.

I have used the Sketchup Free v.8 for the drawing.
I am attaching the Sketchup file and the STL file so anyone can print it at home.
Note that after the item is printed the small hole may need to get a bit of reaming so it can freely move on the loading lever screw.
As of the spring, simply use any available at home, just cut it upon your need.




NOTE: I have not tried shooting with this solution yet so I can not tell whether it is durable enough, time will tell. In any case if one does try it before I do just plase share it here.
Regarding the heat, the PLA is starting to melt at around 160C so it is worth to check whether the latch is intact after shooting a few rounds. I am not sure about the newest printing technology but I can imagine there are other materials that melt on a much higher degree.

NOTE: The drawing is based on millimetres so anybody can do the measurements and create an iron or aluminium latch for himself by some hand work easily.

WR, Lars.

 

[LarsUlmann]

Forgot the pictures, here they are.
Note that the fill ratio during the print is only 30% that is why it looks like it does.
Despite keeping it that low the latch feels very strong and durable.
Sure one can increase the ratio to get an even more solid product.

 

[LarsUlmann]

Took some time today and made the same item from a solid metal this time.
I have used the 3D printed latch as a template and cut out the metal one from an old rusty piece of iron.
Took me 2 hours total. Some polishing and blueing will follow soon.

 

[noelf2]

Seems a bit easy to pull the latch pin out. Have you tested it to see if the latch pin will move on recoil?

 

[LarsUlmann]

Not yet Sir. It will be my next task to do for sure.
BUT even if it would unlock during the recoil it is enough to file the locking end a bit to get rid of that problem
Sure in that case one would need two hands to get the pin out instead of just one.

I am doing all this because of my project that is a .22 conversion, the barrel will be cut, the handle modified for thicker grips.
I do not expect much of recoil from a .22 conversion cylinder.

However, I Will report back after some testing.

 

[LarsUlmann]

In the meanwhile I blued the latch so it does not differ from any part of the gun now.
I have used the Ballistol Klever quick browning solution for that, left for 2x 3 minutes on the latch
and then oiled it with Brunox.

 

[LarsUlmann]

Okay the gun is still have not fired but finally I completed the project.
This is why I needed to create the latch.



I did not want to open a new thread so I just write down my thoughts here.

So the project included:

- create kinda latch for securing the pin
- get the KK .22 conversion cylinder
- shorten the barrel to get to the snubnose model
- modify the grips so they are more comfortable

Unfortunately many problems arose when the Kirst cylinder arrived.
The cylinder was too long for the frame, the barrel insert was too long so it rubbed the cylinder.
The ring feet were so short so kinda adapter was needed for the correct functionality.

Places marked with 2 & 3 neede some sanding.

For the ring I had to create kinda cradle so it could not wobble anymore and the firing pin was finally centered.
It is made of an used .45LC brass case.

I have messaged VTI and asked for a replacement ring with longer feet. They were so kind and sent it out. As soon as it arrives
I will report back about it.

Then I cut the barrel, it was an easy job, I have not crowned it as I am using the .22 insert. However, I can do it anytime later if
I go for .45LC again. Sight is not needed as the gun will serve primarily as a close range self defense weapon (indoor usage - that is why it is .22 instead of .45).

Filing and sanding the iron grip handle needed moderate effort, including the modification of the wooden grips,
but it needed a lot of sanding and measuring. It is very easy to f... it up once and forever.
Drilling a new hole for the grip pin needs a good benchtop drill press to have the hole surely vertical.

The gun was not disassembled during all the filing and sanding works, just carefully taped with a good masking tape.
To keep the gun surface unharmed while having good grip in the vice I used a piece of leather.

First firing tests to see if the latch keeps up are coming soon.

 

[LarsUlmann]

So the test was made.
2 shots fired and neither the latch nor the pin moved at all, both remained at place.
Exactly what I was expecting with .22LR. I plan to check it with .45LC as well.

 

[LarsUlmann]

As I mentioned earlier this .22 snubnose will serve as a self defense weapon. The main drivers for usability were the following:
- easy to use by night (flashlight, red dot or laser sight)
- easy to use by my wife as well (no need for heavy aiming)

Finally I decided to go for a laser sight. It is evident where the shot goes plus one can shoot from any angle, there is no need to be
right behind the gun for proper aiming. Also, it is the easiest way for my wife to aim (I guess).

The problem is that there is no such thing as picatinny, weaver or any other mount type for the 1858 Remington, at least I never
found any, ever.
So I had to design my own.
The important thing was to have the DIY mount locked at least in 2 points to be sure that it does not move.
The ring for the mount on the barrel is quite straightforward. As a second point I used the bottom side of the frame where the
pin locking latch goes. The frame has an 5mm wide cut there, suitable for the mount part to plug in, while keeping tension also
from the outer side by a half ring. Better seen on the pics.
This way the mount is slipping onto the barrel and into the bottom frame at the same time.
The final lock is done via a screw on the barrel ring.
I must say this mount achieves a perfect lock.

For the laser sight I chose the Umarex Laser Tac which is quite small and has an easy lock on the rail (no need for screws and such).

The design and printing took 2 days, with a lot of trial and error until the final version was born.

The result provides a perfect lock and the Umarex stuff is a perfect sight for the job. Sure I have the possibility to exchange the laser anytime for any other accessory
that is using a standard 22mm rail.


Here is a short video showing the DIY mount:

 

[arcticap]

That whole set up is sweet....priceless!

 

[LarsUlmann]

Thanks Sir.

My english is far from perfect so for a better understanding I attach 2 pics of the mount.



As it can be seen there is enough gap between the ring clamps so the ring can be tightened on the barrel.
Sure the clamp ends has to be drilled and a screw used for a tight fit.

I am also thinking about using kinda metal ring or such that could be inserted on the clamps instead of
using a screw for tightening. In that case the whole mount would be removable without any equipment,
lightning fast. It can be useful if the cylinder needs to get taken out for any reason, as the mount
is now blocking the removal of the cylinder pin.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Somehow that just don't seem right, great work though.

 

[LarsUlmann]

I know it is not nice to modify a historical replica this way but I have no other choice, sry.

In the meantime the replacement cylinder ring arrived from Kirst, unfortunately they sent me another ring
with the same dimensions so it is useless in its original state.
After a long research, I decided to try a cold welding solution of J-B Weld (for steel) to lenghten the ring feet.
It is a 2-component epoxy that is promised to cure in 24h and is announced to be the best at the market.
According to the manufacturer it has a tensile strength of 5020 PSI and can withstand temperatures up to 550 degrees Fahrenheit (287 degrees Celsius).
And it is definitely not cheap.

I went for it and after 24h it seemed to be strong and ready for some sanding.



After sanding the epoxy feet they seem to hold the ring spot on at its place.
Time will tell how durable this will be but it the manufacturer is not lying it should last till eternity.

It is a pity that Kirst (I do not mean the old man but his team) is unable to machine the rings with longer feet.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.LarsUlmann...great posts! I applaud you for such enginuity. I know it can be difficult to get parts in the EU so great job on making things work with what you have available. Im a fan of people who will use their cap and ball guns for self defense as i feel, in my opinion, that they are good enough to get the job done without worry so long as you know your gun well and its quirks and have possibly tuned it for reliability. I really liked that you even used a 3D printer to get the part you needed...very awesome indeed. So from one gun tinkerer to another...tip of the hat to you sir. Great job!

 

[arcticap]

If the epoxy doesn't hold then silver solder would probably work?
Solder a steel part or two and then fit it.
Did you consider using that method?

 

[LarsUlmann]

The project is over, I am posting some pics about the gun, that is now ready for action.

The best thing is that it can be converted back to a .45 BP anytime in a few seconds by using the original cylinder,
or converted to a .45 LC by using Kirst's cylinder for the 1858 Remy.
Sure in the latter case some additional work would be needed on the loading port so it can accept .45LC as well,
or simply use it without the laser sight by changing the cylinder when loading.

The barrel end has been carefully measured, sanded and blued (not crowned yet but it is a few minutes job if needed) after the cut.



So now I can look on it as a universal 3 in 1 last line of defense equipment,
but primarily it is a .22 converted snubbie for my sweet wife.



The files for printing the 22mm rail are available on the following link:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4807950

Note: the DIY rail can be used on any 1858 Remington that has the factory sight removed,
e.g. has a barrel without any obstacle on it.
In the worst case it is a relatively easy job to remove the factory sight, attach the rail then insert the factory sight back to its place.
The sight should be held in place just by tension not by any glue.

 

[LarsUlmann]

If the epoxy doesn't hold then silver solder would probably work?
Solder a steel part or two and then fit it.
Did you consider using that method?

Definitively, yes. It was my first idea.
Unfortunately I do not have any welding skills and I do not know anybody around who can do the job for me.

 

[LarsUlmann]

Mr.LarsUlmann...great posts! I applaud you for such enginuity. I know it can be difficult to get parts in the EU so great job on making things work with what you have available. Im a fan of people who will use their cap and ball guns for self defense as i feel, in my opinion, that they are good enough to get the job done without worry so long as you know your gun well and its quirks and have possibly tuned it for reliability. I really liked that you even used a 3D printer to get the part you needed...very awesome indeed. So from one gun tinkerer to another...tip of the hat to you sir. Great job!

Thanks, I hope some ideas can be used by other users as well.
We are all different and we approach the same problem from many different views,
important is to find a suitable solution. It does not matter which way.

As you pointed it out we are quite limited here in EU regarding equipment, let it be even the most simple.
Many times I wanted to buy sthg from the USA but the export policies made that impossible.
Even when needing just a small piece of iron, that should not cause any harm to anyone in any case.
Thinking of the mild weapon law in the USA I can not understand the strict export policies.

 

[arcticap]

Definitively, yes. It was my first idea.
Unfortunately I do not have any welding skills and I do not know anybody around who can do the job for me.

Kirst should make the legs too long instead of too short.
It doesn't make very much sense to not be able to fit the legs to the revolver.

 

[LarsUlmann]

I was not 100% satisfied with the the former mount because of it's shape so I redesigned it a bit.
Now the bottom half-tube grip is stronger and I am using a plastic clip on top instead of the hole-screw fix.
I have added one more "tooth" to the end of the rail so the laser sight could be fixed closer to the trigger guard.
Also I tried to cover the "gaps" between the mount and the latch so it all looks a bit better but still I think
that the look should be perfect by covering all of the gaps. Maybe next time...

 

[hrt4me]

Does your sweet wife actually carry that?

 

[LarsUlmann]

Nope. It is a home defense weapon, not allowed for EDC in our country (unfortunately)

 

[paul harm]

In the future if a part like that is needed give me a email - [email protected] and I'll buy it and mail it to you. I don't think any of our laws prohibit them from being exported - that was just some store policy. I consider my Bulldog more of a " gut gun" so a laser sight isn't needed, but really nice work.

 

[LarsUlmann]

In the future if a part like that is needed give me a email - [email protected] and I'll buy it and mail it to you. I don't think any of our laws prohibit them from being exported - that was just some store policy. I consider my Bulldog more of a " gut gun" so a laser sight isn't needed, but really nice work.

Thanks Paul

 

[Swampy75]

I was not 100% satisfied with the the former mount because of it's shape so I redesigned it a bit.
Now the bottom half-tube grip is stronger and I am using a plastic clip on top instead of the hole-screw fix.
I have added one more "tooth" to the end of the rail so the laser sight could be fixed closer to the trigger guard.
Also I tried to cover the "gaps" between the mount and the latch so it all looks a bit better but still I think
that the look should be perfect by covering all of the gaps. Maybe next time...

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That is awesome work! I have a 3D printer I just got about a month ago and have been playing around with it. I know what it's next project is going to be! Thanks.