19-7 What would you pay?
- Thread starter ArmedBear
- Start date
- Status
sparkyguy66
Member
Would I? No. Then again, I have grown very fond of 30+yr old S&Ws. Pinned and recessed for me. Like this:
I think it's a 19-4 c.1978. On gunbroker now for $460.
I think it's a 19-4 c.1978. On gunbroker now for $460.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
A 19-7 is young enough to be not pinned, not recessed, and possibly some MIM parts on the later ones.
rc
19-4 was the last p/r model, about 1981, you are correct Blue .45. 19-7 came out about '94, and is just a fine build. It has forged hammer/trigger, fp on the nose, and a pinned cylinder stop, just like all the old-school S&Ws. It was unfortunately after they swapped to rubber grips (if you want some old-school walnut ones for it, check the classifieds you may find that someone has a pair there for sale 
).
At $450 and with the box, that is basically a fire-sale price. Grab it or tell me where it is - I've got some poorly-built Model 66-1's, pinned and recessed, I'd like to trade up to a nice, tight, blue 19-5,6 or 7. I've said it before and I'll say it again, as a consideration in purchasing for a gun to use, Pinned & Recessed is way overblown. Buy the quality of the individual gun, not the reputation of one year or another. The pin was functionally superfluous anyway - the barrels were crush-fit starting shortly after WWII anyway. Eventually getting rid of the pin was long overdue. Starting around 1980 or so, the quality of S&W took a big step for the better as much of the hand finishing was reduced by CNC machining. Tolerances got tighter on the whole. I would much rather, on average, have a 19-5, 19-6, or 19-7 than a 19-3 or 19-4 (in truth, I'd rather have a 19, 19-1, or 19-2 as my top picks, but let's stick with gun since '68 or so to make it simple). Recessed cylinders are kinda neat, but they are not, in and of themselves, a huge deal in my mind. I mean, non-magnums NEVER had them, so what's the big deal? I like counter-bored cylinders, sure, but I'd rather have a well built and finished gun than chase a relatively unimportant feature.
).At $450 and with the box, that is basically a fire-sale price. Grab it or tell me where it is - I've got some poorly-built Model 66-1's, pinned and recessed, I'd like to trade up to a nice, tight, blue 19-5,6 or 7. I've said it before and I'll say it again, as a consideration in purchasing for a gun to use, Pinned & Recessed is way overblown. Buy the quality of the individual gun, not the reputation of one year or another. The pin was functionally superfluous anyway - the barrels were crush-fit starting shortly after WWII anyway. Eventually getting rid of the pin was long overdue. Starting around 1980 or so, the quality of S&W took a big step for the better as much of the hand finishing was reduced by CNC machining. Tolerances got tighter on the whole. I would much rather, on average, have a 19-5, 19-6, or 19-7 than a 19-3 or 19-4 (in truth, I'd rather have a 19, 19-1, or 19-2 as my top picks, but let's stick with gun since '68 or so to make it simple). Recessed cylinders are kinda neat, but they are not, in and of themselves, a huge deal in my mind. I mean, non-magnums NEVER had them, so what's the big deal? I like counter-bored cylinders, sure, but I'd rather have a well built and finished gun than chase a relatively unimportant feature.
sparkyguy66
Member
I prefer P&R over MIM/IL, that's just me. I don't necessarily totally disregard new guns, but given my druthers..
As for it being "way overblown", for you maybe. Prices for these "overblown" revolvers and the desireability of them severely undercut your assessment of them. Older revolvers have a beauty and smoothness to them I and many others love. Statistically, most have not been fired enough to indicate timing issues, so to come across a schloppy one is relatively rare.
If I were you, I'd take that "poorly built" 66-1 and have it repaired, as I find that model to be an excellent one.
As for it being "way overblown", for you maybe. Prices for these "overblown" revolvers and the desireability of them severely undercut your assessment of them. Older revolvers have a beauty and smoothness to them I and many others love. Statistically, most have not been fired enough to indicate timing issues, so to come across a schloppy one is relatively rare.
If I were you, I'd take that "poorly built" 66-1 and have it repaired, as I find that model to be an excellent one.
wanderinwalker
Member
Anything 19-5 and higher is non-pinned and non-recessed. Not that it really matters a lick if you're looking for a shooter.
All (3) of my S&Ws are non-pinned and non-recessed. Wait, that's not technically correct, as all of the .22s built since the advent of High Velocity .22LR are recessed, and I have a .22LR (18-4). At any rate, they are all fine shooters and pretty solidly built. Two of them are even Bangor Punta-era guns!
My 19 looks a little rough on the outside, but was tight and smooth in the action. It looks like it was a holster gun for a long time, so the finish speaks nothing of the manufacture quality.
For $450 I would be tempted if I really wanted it. Unfortunately, right now I keep day-dreaming about a pinned Model 60 that showed up at the shop I bought the 19 from. (He wants $339 OTD for it, FWIW.)
All (3) of my S&Ws are non-pinned and non-recessed. Wait, that's not technically correct, as all of the .22s built since the advent of High Velocity .22LR are recessed, and I have a .22LR (18-4). At any rate, they are all fine shooters and pretty solidly built. Two of them are even Bangor Punta-era guns!
My 19 looks a little rough on the outside, but was tight and smooth in the action. It looks like it was a holster gun for a long time, so the finish speaks nothing of the manufacture quality. For $450 I would be tempted if I really wanted it. Unfortunately, right now I keep day-dreaming about a pinned Model 60 that showed up at the shop I bought the 19 from. (He wants $339 OTD for it, FWIW.)
No, you can come across slightly sloppy work plenty on S&W guns from the late '60s up to about '80. This is known to revolver fans as the "Bad ole' Bangor days" for the poor management team the owners put in place and the up and down quality of the work. I have seen even a 27 leave the factory with a forcing cone so crooked the cylinder wouldn't close on one side, and it measured .014" on the other! this was just not unusual in those days.
sparkyguy66
Member
Whatever oro. Here's a little test......."Black."........
....
waiting for you to say "White." You're right, oro..everyone else is wrong. I'm amazed at how many thousands and thousands of sloppy S&Ws out there, big percentages too.:banghead:
Like debating my step-son. It's unreal how WRONG I am and he's so right.:banghead::banghead:
....
waiting for you to say "White." You're right, oro..everyone else is wrong. I'm amazed at how many thousands and thousands of sloppy S&Ws out there, big percentages too.
:banghead:Like debating my step-son. It's unreal how WRONG I am and he's so right.
:banghead::banghead:
krs
Member
Pinned barrels and recessed cylinders do not form the breakpoint between early guns and MIM/IL guns - they dropped the two overblown features long before initiating locks.
It's very true that there were a lot of almost crummie guns produced by S&W during the 1970's. It's a hit or miss proposition as to whether a given offering will prove to be a good example or a pretty poor one. But this is all quite common knowledge so what's your personal issue with Oro, sparky?
Oro is right, in other words.
It's very true that there were a lot of almost crummie guns produced by S&W during the 1970's. It's a hit or miss proposition as to whether a given offering will prove to be a good example or a pretty poor one. But this is all quite common knowledge so what's your personal issue with Oro, sparky?
Oro is right, in other words.
sparkyguy66
Member
Take the "high road", krs. Don't try to initiate arguments where you are not involved, bad form.
What oro and you are pushing is purely OPINION, not fact. NOT FACT, understand? And when someone who already stated their OPINION has to come back with another post to pronounce MY OPINION to be wrong, then I'm gonna call them on it, got it krs? You don't like S&Ws, fine. Have fun with your Taurus.
What oro and you are pushing is purely OPINION, not fact. NOT FACT, understand? And when someone who already stated their OPINION has to come back with another post to pronounce MY OPINION to be wrong, then I'm gonna call them on it, got it krs? You don't like S&Ws, fine. Have fun with your Taurus.
- Status