1911 Guidance (I BEEN BIT!)

[AhmadShah]

Long time reader, first time thread-er.

While spending some quality "learning" time in Arizona, got the hankering to see what all this 1911 fuss was about. Ultimately, my buddy steered me towards the Kimber Crimson Carry line of pistols and somehow a Ultra Crimson Carry ended up on my doorstep.

Took the pistol out a couple of weekends ago, and it's a dream to shoot. I own a Sig P250, and a Taurus PT145 (I like both of 'em, but I'm not a pistolero by any stretch of the imagination, and I haven't quite gotten over the long pull on the P250.) Found out the PT145 is having either feed ramp or mag troubles (I suspect both). But...found out that the Kimber is a gorgeous little pistol to shoot. I'm hooked, I figure after my next round of mandatory anthropological adventures is done, I'll start looking at a longer barreled version that I can fiddle around with (more uh "in spec" as they say.)

So...two questions to the 1911 smart people who roam:

1.) Done a bit of reading on the Kimber alloy frame and mag issue (metal followers and gouging). I like the kimber mag that came with it, but I'm not committed, what else is everyone running with? I'm looking at getting one mag of each three types, and finding the one that the kimber is happiest with, and buying about 6-7 of that type. Figure that'll avoid the buying a bad-for-the-gun-mag in bulk.

2.) If you had a fair bit of coin to drop (hoping 800-1000) on a 5" 1911, which manufacturer would you start with, or would you go with a simpler model and adjust it to your personal desires?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Walkalong]

Two to consider.

Springfield

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?clicktype=1911

S&W - E Series

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...70151_757752_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

 

[9mmepiphany]

Let me offer some reading for you to make up your own mind. They are articles by Hilton Yam, who carries and builds 1911s for folks who take them into harms way everyday.

Choosing your first 1911
1911 for Duty Use
Choosing 1911 Magazines

 

[Fmjblack]

I use Tripp Research magazines which have a hybrid polymer/metal follower(they are metal where the slide-stop engages the follower). This gives you the best of both worlds. I'll cast another vote for a Springfield 1911 as i really enjoy mine!

 

[dbro822]

I've had really good luck with Wilson Combat 8 and 10 round mags in my Springfield, Chip McCormick mags are good also, although their 10 round ones don't work with the Smith and Alexander mag well, had to shave the slam pad.

 

[Zerodefect]

Get Tripp or Wilson mags. Get Tripp followers and springs to upgrade your Kimber mags.

Stick to the lower priced Kimber models. Those have the best "bang for buck". Models like the Custom II and TLE II. When you get past $1000 your better off looking at DW, LB, STI.

1911's I'd look at in price order:

Kimber Custom II
Kimber TLE II
Colt 1991
Colt Rail Gun
Dan Wesson Heritage
Dan Wesson Valor

 

[mattc58]

I love my Sig 1911 RCS. Commander sized slide, officer sized grip.

 

[jackpinesavages]

If you had a fair bit of coin to drop (hoping 800-1000) on a 5" 1911, which manufacturer would you start with, or would you go with a simpler model and adjust it to your personal desires?

Go for a used and lightly built STI or Caspian. These are not like high mileage cars to be scoffed at-on the contrary. Most do not get more than 1000 rds through them and operate like new. Recently picked up a Caspian Custom: Kart national match barrel and bushing, Wilson Combat: Speed chute magwell, sights, and mag button, STI trigger, competition holster and mag pouches for 600.

I've used Chip McCormack's mags with the least failures.

Google "1911 mag re-build" and you'll find a whole 'nother world of custom build that will blow your springs out.

What caliber do you prefer to shoot?

 

[2wheels]

I run factory mags in my Colt, and Chip McCormicks in my other 1911.

My next 1911 will probably be a Springfield, they're around your price range.

You could always pick up a nice Colt with that cash. Depends on what you're looking for really.

 

[JTQ]

1. For aluminum frames just avoid the "Devel" follower as used most notably by the Chip McCormick PowerMags (and others). They have a pointy edge and tend tip forward out of the tube posing a danger to aluminum frames. I believe Checkmate makes the Kimber ProMags and feature the "patented Checkmate follower" (CMF) that has a "skirt" at the leading edge of the follower keeping it from tipping forward.
Good sources
Top Gun Supply - carries Checkmate, Wilson, Kimber
http://www.topgunsupply.com/1911-magazines/

Tripp Research - only available direct. I also believe the Tripp "Flex" follower (not the hybrid follower which is Tripp's design) is a Checkmate product, though not the coated version as used in the Checkmate and KimPro mags. Tripp does have a good picture of this follower if you just want to compare it to your Kimber mags.
http://www.trippresearch.com/store/store_1911.html

2. If you like Kimber, there is nothing wrong staying with the brand. They have a bunch of options in that price range. The TLE II seems like a good bargain in the line-up. Colt, Springfield, S&W, and Sig also have a bunch of offerings in this price range.

I would be hesitant to follow this recommendation

Go for a used and lightly built brand XXX. These are not like high mileage cars to be scoffed at-on the contrary. Most do not get more than 1000 rds through them and operate like new.

because of this

or would you go with a simpler model and adjust it to your personal desires?

Sure they are low mileage, but there are lots of folks who are not gunsmiths that think they are. Dremel tools and 1911 parts are very easy to come by and unless you really know what you are looking for, you could easily find yourself with a "bargain" used gun that will eventually cost you the price of a new pistol just to make it work. Of course you could be looking for this "adventure".

The 1911 is not like a Glock where parts just "drop in". I read many posts from experienced 1911 guys that the only true drop in parts on a 1911 are the springs. Some parts may drop in, but the expectation is to be prepared to do some "fitting". Some folks know how to do that fitting, some don't and then you end up with a problem gun.

 

[AhmadShah]

9mmepiphany: I've read the 1911 article, but the other two were new to me and much appreciated. Helped expand my understanding a good deal, thank you.

Jackpine: I own a 9mm P250, and now two .45s (the Kimber and a PT145). I prefer the .45, but the cost per round is beginning to pain my soul. I guess I need to get smart on reloading.

JTQ: I will admit that I own a dremel, but it is used for far more common house hold tasks than weapon modification . I see the two schools of thought with regards to 1911s being: get one with just about everything you'd want to change already done to it (the loaded varieties); whereas the other is more geared towards get a good milspec, and fiddle with it towards your intended purposes from there. By fiddle here, I mean with a competent smith and a good deal of rounds through it. I'm in love with the Kimber, but not quite sure I'm smart enough on the platform as a whole to decide what I do or don't like. I like the larger thumb safety, and the slide release is still a bit tight, requiring me to break the firing grip in order to actuate it one handed, (or use the support hand, not sure if that's a good/bad idea). How comfortable would you want to be with the 1911 as a whole for you to feel that you could identify some bad work done on a used pistol pre-purchase?

 

[mister2]

Let me offer some reading for you to make up your own mind. They are articles by Hilton Yam, who carries and builds 1911s for folks who take them into harms way everyday.

Choosing your first 1911
1911 for Duty Use
Choosing 1911 Magazines

9mmepiphany: I've read the 1911 article, but the other two were new to me and much appreciated. Helped expand my understanding a good deal, thank you.

+1

There's a fair amount of technical reasons for every choice, and the best approach (for me) has been to understand, rather than to simply follow individual recommendations. Different stuff works differently for different individuals.

There also are personal preferences. I can be looking for the $$$1911s and run into people who couldn't care less. Or, I might be minimalist and just think shooting out the X-ring is all. There are no wrong answers here, and only you, through your research, will know what works for you.

People have said that investing in a low-cost entry level pistol will make me lose money, if I find out I don't like it and have to sell it. I find this not to be true, at all. The firearms market has expanded enough so there are always buyers at every price point.

If there are "how not to do" lessons, and in my case there always have been, I'd be farther down the comprehension road if they were the result of my choices rather than someone else's. Make your own mistakes, not others'.

It's a journey, and there are no shortcuts.

Good luck!

 

[JTQ]

How comfortable would you want to be with the 1911 as a whole for you to feel that you could identify some bad work done on a used pistol pre-purchase?

Some guys, I'm sure, can just pick up a 1911 and know what's wrong with it. Those guys probably also have the skills, and tools, to fix those problems. I know my limitations, I'm not one of those guys, on either count. For those reasons I tend to avoid used 1911's. However, I still kick myself for passing on a very lightly used Les Baer TRS, offered at a very generous discount, a few years ago.

My thought process (rightly or wrongly) on the used high-end 1911's though, is that folks are less likely to grind on them in their garage than the average 1911. Either the pistol is so expensive they're unwilling to take a chance and mess it up, or since they had enough money to buy it, they also have enough money (and sense) to send it to a top gunsmith to fix a problem.

Some problems could be very obvious, but I think for the most part it's kind of like buying a used car. Usually, you can test drive a used car, but you can't often "test drive" a used pistol. With a test drive you can sometimes identify problems, but to really know what's wrong you'd need to take it to a mechanic (gunsmith, for a pistol).

 

[9mmepiphany]

Some guys, I'm sure, can just pick up a 1911 and know what's wrong with it. Those guys probably also have the skills, and tools, to fix those problems. I know my limitations, I'm not one of those guys, on either count.

I started shooting and carrying a 1911 over 30 years ago and even when it wasn't my primary carry piece, I always had one.

I did a lot of reading to understand how it worked and learned how to detail strip it without any tools. I learned the difference between range toys and carry pieces by talking to folks who carried them for work and folks who fixed them. It takes a while to really figure out what you want changed on a 1911 to suit you...at least it is easier now with the internet, I used to spend time in the back of dusty gunshops.

But I'm still learning things that just never came up in discussion. That is the downside to talking to 1911 master, they don't always mention things they thing are too obvious. It was just a couple of years ago that I found out why you don't cut a 1911 barrel flush with the bushing, if you want it to shoot accurately, and why you should place your thumb on the thumbsafety (I've always done it, I just didn't know the real reason)

 

[Leaky Waders]

For the money that you are proposing get a nib Colt 1911 govt model. Shoot it with the factory mags or with some that get reviews on sites like Midway...eg Wilsons.

If you want to change the pistol after shooting it a bit, then let a real pistol smith (ie someone who makes their living from working on pistols) modify it for you.

If you already know what you want on your pistol, then just buy it that way already.

Learn to break down your pistol without scratching it...don't let others take yours down if your concerned about scratching it...

The 1911 is a good reliable platform for over 100 years. Reliability issues seem to occur when someone has decided to tinker with their pistol on their own. Too many gunshows display kitchen countertop 1911 modifications with excuses of why that particular pistol works with only one specific magazine aligned with the equator and a full moon.

L.W.

 

[451 Detonics]

Mec Gar mags are the only ones I run in any of my 1911 platform guns. When I am paying entry fees to compeitions like the Bianchi Cup I want magazines I know will work. Many of the professional shooters use them as well. Mec Gar makes the OEM mags for Springfield, Kimber, Steyr, Sig, Beretta, Walther, etc. I think they are the best on the market.

 

[bbuddtec]

Thanks for the 10-8 link 9mm... now I found out about Santa too...

(10-8 youtube channel vid lol)

 

[BullfrogKen]

1.) Done a bit of reading on the Kimber alloy frame and mag issue (metal followers and gouging). I like the kimber mag that came with it, but I'm not committed, what else is everyone running with? I'm looking at getting one mag of each three types, and finding the one that the kimber is happiest with

I've got about thirty 1911 magazines here at the house, in three calibers.

My first 1911 was an old-style Kimber "Custom Classic" that I bought used. There was nothing wrong with it, by the way. I've bought a LOT of used guns. The mags sucked, though. I threw them in the trash when I got home.

I bought five .45 ACP Wilsons to start me out, and have branched out considerably over the years. I have since learned what I like about mags, and what I don't based on both my carry preferences, and my shooting style. I bolded those, because they do matter.


I have moved away from anything using nylon or plastic followers. The slide stop makes slight indentations on the plastic followers. It's very minor pressure, and takes a long time to actually affect the operation of the gun. But I shoot so much that - over time - the slide stop makes those indentations deep enough that it will cause the gun to not hold open on the last round. It started to happen to me after about 3 years worth of shooting on a few of those plastic/nylon follower magazines.


When I had Jim Garthwaite build me a 9x23/38 Super Commander, he supplied me with 4 stainless Metalform magazines. I got turned onto those right away, and that's all I've bought since. I really like the quality that Metalform produces.

http://www.metalform.us/collections/pistol-magazines


I use Metalform's round metal follower in both my .45 ACP and 9x23/38 Super mags. You can order most of Metalform's produce line through Brownell's.

http://www.brownells.com/

Just do a search for Metalform. The company's on-line catalog works a little different than you might expect. It's not intuitive, but if you open and drill down into the results you'll see much more of Metalform's products in detail.


I'll take some pictures of the magazines I have over the weekend, compare some of them, and highlight what I like and what I don't.

2.) If you had a fair bit of coin to drop (hoping 800-1000) on a 5" 1911, which manufacturer would you start with, or would you go with a simpler model and adjust it to your personal desires?

I'd do the same thing I did the first time. I'd buy a plain-jane base model, possibly used if I knew how to spot problems, or I'd take someone with me shopping who does. If not, I'd just buy a plain-jane Colt or Springfield. I'd learn on it, and get used to it for a year or two. Then I'd know what I liked, and be more educated and informed about what sort of gun and the features I want that will fit my style of shooting.

And I'd either go buy it, or have it made.


You don't need to stop at one.

 

[skoro]

If you had a fair bit of coin to drop (hoping 800-1000) on a 5" 1911, which manufacturer would you start with

Colt Series 70 Government Model; it'll make you smile.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I have two Smiths (one plain jane, one Perforance Center) and they are both great.

But if I had coin...about twice the coin you specified...Kimber Royal II. Love the finish.

Ah, me. Maybe stick with Smith.

 

[jackpinesavages]

OP-there are plenty of 1911 platforms in affordable 9mm, 40, or even 38 Supers. You don't need to stick with the .45. Yeah, reloading is another adventure to itself!