1911 jamming problem second possible cause after responses to first thread

[niki]

I would like to thank all of those who responded to my problems with my 1918 ,1911 after going thru some of the advice , I got to trying to use the slide only , no barrel, and I had the same binding when the slide got to the small notch where the slide stop inserts to lock the slide stop in , I looked very closely, and noticed on the inside of the slide a small burr on the back of the notch cut out, if this is a possible problem what are some of the ways to address this burr. I am very careful about this 1911 as I do know the value of it as a collectable and want to keep it untouched as much as possible.

 

[230RN]

Double post, sorry.

 

[230RN]

Double post.

 

[g.willikers]

The best and safest way to change the shape of gun parts is with stones.
Or maybe with gunsmithing files, made for the job.
And, of course, knowing what and what not to mess with, along with how.
But before whittlin' on your extra special shootin' iron, could you supply a picture of the suspect area?

 

[tark]

Niki, that gun could be quite valuable,if it is all original. Up into four figures, possibly.

Don't take chances, take it to a Smith. If you don't have any in your area, get a hold of the nearest gun club and ask them for help. Someone in that club will probably know enough about 1911s to at least tell you what is wrong.

 

[Jim K]

I doubt that cleaning off a burr in an invisible part of the slide would affect the collector's value of that pistol. Slide burring at that cutout and at the slide stop notch is pretty common on those old guns. The slides were not hardened and often battered there and at the breechface. During WWII, a hardened insert was screwed into the breech face, and the front of the slide and the slide notches were heat treated to harden them. (The insert is usually never noticed, but the darkened areas of the slide can be seen through the Parkerizing on guns that have not been refinished.) Later, Colt hardened the entire slide, and most clone makers have followed suit.

Jim

 

[orionengnr]

Why start a new thread?

You actually had the attention and response of one of the most knowledgeable and helpful 1911 guys around.

And then you jumped the tracks and started fresh. You are really not doing yourself any favors...

 

[230RN]

You actually had the attention and response of one of the most knowledgeable and helpful 1911 guys around.

Aw, shucks, thanks.

Actually, I was waiting for 1911Tuner's response to that. I started a post, found I had doubled it, then decided to withdraw it altogether because I thought maybe he had got the slide stop and the safety mixed up, and figured I'd better wait until the acknowledged expert on 1911s commented first. Especially since I'm totally out of the loop on antique values.

Terry

 

[rcmodel]

Mercy!

See post #7.
I agree completely!

I realize you are new to THR.
Maybe new to posting anywhere?

But this got off track so far by starting another new thread, it's hard to recover the good advice from the bad advice in both threads at this point!

Once you start a problem solving thread?
Dance with the one who brung ya!

rc

 

[1911Tuner]

JimK called it.

I've seen the burrs in that area of the slide, but I don't recall ever having any sticky slides result from it. The burrs just don't get big enough.

And:

The slides were not hardened and often battered there and at the breechface. During WWII, a hardened insert was screwed into the breech face, and the front of the slide and the slide notches were heat treated to harden them.

What Jim is referring to was called the "Recoil Insert" and sometimes the "Recoil Shield." Colt implemented the modification in 1936 to forestall the battering and peening that resulted from the case slamming into the breechface under 20,000 psi in a fraction of a nanosecond.

Additionally, in those early pistols up to 1946 when they were fully hardened...deformed lugs...slide and barrel... were observed from the opposing shear forces imposed on them when the gun was fired.

All this means that the old collectible guns really shouldn't be fired a lot..especially those that have an unknown history.

And...before they're fired at all...they should be thoroughly inspected by somebody who understands the 1911 pistol...but you can ascertain a few things for yourself.

Look closely at the lugs in the slide and on the barrel. If they appear to be deformed into a stair-step shape...the headspace is probably excessive and it may be dangerous to fire the gun even once.

Prove the trigger/fire control group by loading two rounds into the magazine so in case it goes into burst mode...you only have to control two rounds. Repeat a few times until you're satisfied that the gun is truly semiauto.

 

[JTQ]

We don't know the OP's experience with a 1911 or pistols in general.

Is it possible the binding is merely the contact with the disconnector and something the OP is not expecting to feel.

 

[1911Tuner]

Is it possible the binding is merely the contact with the disconnector and something the OP is not expecting to feel.

He mentioned that he could operate the slide if he cocked the hammer first...so it's not the disconnect. It's possible that he's just having trouble overcoming the mainspring as the hammer moves, or there something related to the hammer that's in a bind.

 

[JTQ]

He mentioned that he could operate the slide if he cocked the hammer first...so it's not the disconnect.

My suspicion was that the OP was not familiar with how much effort it would take to operate the slide with the hammer down. With the hammer cocked, the level of effort was more what they were expecting. If you don't know what you're doing with a 1911, or even with an auto pistol, there is a big difference.

I've lost count of the number of first time 1911 users, coming over from other semi autos, that have commented about some small binding the notice as they rack the slide only to discover it is the disconnector.

We still don't know the OP's level of gun knowledge, gender, or strength. What feels like binding, or the inability to rack the slide with the hammer down, to a 110 lb. woman, that has never handled a gun before, is completely different than what would be binding to a 250 lb. man that is a stone mason, that has used 1911's for the past 20 years.

 

[1911Tuner]

Here's his original statement from the other thread, indicating...at least to me...that he could operate the slide only if he cocked the hammer first.

It's either...as you noted...that he wasn't expecting that much resistance from the hammer, or there's an issue with the hammer and its related parts.

i have a 1911 1918 vintage which used to belong to my step father , the slide was jammed, i used the information on thr and was able to free it , after freeing it i am able to get it to slide if i cock the hammer back before trying to rack the gun

At this point, we're just trying to figure out which it is.

But it's not the disconnect. That has nothing to do with the hammer.

 

[JTQ]

But it's not the disconnect. That has nothing to do with the hammer.

I agree the disconnect has nothing to do with the hammer.

At the top of this thread...

I got to trying to use the slide only , no barrel, and I had the same binding when the slide got to the small notch where the slide stop inserts to lock the slide stop in

I suspect this has nothing to do with the hammer.

 

[1911Tuner]

I suspect this has nothing to do with the hammer.

Assuming that the sear spring hasn't eaten a dish into the disconnect spade and keeping it from being cammed down into the frame, very little resistance is felt from the disconnect and sear spring...and it's over by the time the slide has moved a 10th inch.

I was going on his original question. The one that you mention seems to be a completely different issue. Could be a rough spot on the center rail. Could be the slide camming the disconnect back down as it runs forward. At this point, we don't even know which direction the slide is moving when he feels it. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

But, I'll tell ya what.

I'm a little tired of trying to diagnose this and argue at the same time.

So, I'm gonna back out. Have at it.

 

[g.willikers]

From the first of the OP's comments in this page:

I got to trying to use the slide only , no barrel, and I had the same binding

So, unless they found a way to remove the barrel and leave the recoil spring in, that would seem to eliminate the lack of physical strength being the cause, too.
Besides, it's been so long since we have heard anything from niki, he/she has probably traded it off for a box full of Glocks or Keltecs by now.

 

[JTQ]

So, unless they found a way to remove the barrel and leave the recoil spring in, that would seem to eliminate the lack of physical strength being the cause, too.

Yep, that is not an issue in this thread. That was an issue with the OP's other, though similar thread.

This thread is just about some binding.

In regards to this thread (not the other)…

- I believe the OP has no spring in the gun.
- I believe the OP has the hammer cocked.
- I believe the OP notices some small binding as the slide is retracted.

The point I was making in my earlier posts was trying to get the folks not to confuse the two threads. Which is apparently still happening.

 

[GLOOB]

Don't take chances, take it to a Smith.

I wouldn't take the chance on a smith. Unless you can figure out what's wrong, and unless it's a 100% obvious and easy fix, just leave it alone. You are not going to shoot the gun, anyway. It might be worth more in its original condition to a collector. He may have a preferred smith, already. He may even be familiar with this specific problem. It might be related to the specific model/year and be that much more proof of authenticity.