1991 model 640 no dash 38 special - ammo question

[unclenunzie]

I picked up this 1991 model 640 no dash 38 special in January '22. Because it is not specifically rated for +P ammo I have not fired it with my preferred loads: Speer 135 gr +P, Winchester ranger 130 gr +P. This is not one of the early 640s that was marked inside the cylinder window "tested for +p+".

S&W recommends standard pressure only so that's what I bought for it: Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain FTX, Norma 158 Gr JHP, and some Federal "train and defend" 158 gr LSWCHP.

My question to the good folks of this forum is if this were your 640, would you go with the +P loads or stick with the standard loads as recommended? Secondarily, if you have any experience with the standard loads performance I'd love to hear about it.

 

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Personal I would trust it for +p for carrying but wouldn't run them for range use

 

[Dave T]

It's an all steel gun and +P isn't all it's cracked up to be. Were it mine I would shoot +P hand loads for practice that duplicate the +P carry ammo I wanted to use.

YMMV,
Dave

 

[aaaaa]

Beautiful revolver. Looks brand new. Is it new old stock?

Me: standard 39 Special for range, +P for defense.

 

[Homerboy]

I picked up this 1991 model 640 no dash 38 special in January '22. Because it is not specifically rated for +P ammo I have not fired it with my preferred loads: Speer 135 gr +P, Winchester ranger 130 gr +P. This is not one of the early 640s that was marked inside the cylinder window "tested for +p+".

S&W recommends standard pressure only so that's what I bought for it: Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain FTX, Norma 158 Gr JHP, and some Federal "train and defend" 158 gr LSWCHP.

My question to the good folks of this forum is if this were your 640, would you go with the +P loads or stick with the standard loads as recommended? Secondarily, if you have any experience with the standard loads performance I'd love to hear about it.

The first Model 640 that was authorized by the NYPD was the no dash 640 in 1991. We carried 158 grain +P before eventually setting on the Speer 135 grain +P. I wouldn’t shoot all +P just because there’s no reason to, but I would only carry it with +P, and when I do carry mine, it is loaded with the 135 grain +P

 

[wcwhitey]

Nothing but Speer 135 Grain Short Barrel +P for 30 years, best I can tell 7500 rounds in, trigger is baby butt smooth still tight as a drum.

I lied, for five of those years Federal 158 SWC +P

 

[unclenunzie]

Wow. 7500. That a no dash? 30 years puts it at 1992 or so. Gives me some confidence.

I don't think mine is NOS but probably a sock drawer gun or maybe a backup. It's used but very clean and tight.

Thanks guys this is great. I love the NYPD connection.

 

[Hangingrock]

The problem of; TESTED FOR +P+ was there was no industry standard for +P+. In my example I just use standard 38 Spl.

 

[unclenunzie]

The problem of; TESTED FOR +P+ was there was no industry standard for +P+. In my example I just use standard 38 Spl.

Right, as I understand it there was a specific 147 grain "+P+" load at the time. No personal experience.

 

[wcwhitey]

Wow. 7500. That a no dash? 30 years puts it at 1992 or so. Gives me some confidence.

I don't think mine is NOS but probably a sock drawer gun or maybe a backup. It's used but very clean and tight.

Thanks guys this is great. I love the NYPD connection.

I never really counted that was a guess. 200 a year qualification X 23 years = 4600, add classes and personal practice that seems like a good number. Even better when it is their ammo! I still shoot it a few times a year. A very solid gun and from what I remember it was adopted specifically for the DAO and it’s +P durability. The one thing you will appreciate over a standard J frame is the high back strap which forces you to hold high. Makes it a very natural pointer and with a good set of boot grips the steel gun is a pleasant shooter. You will like it. Mine is promised to my son so I replaced my J frame with a new 638 for pocket carry. The two things that I didn’t like was it is a bit heavy for the pocket and every once in a while I like single action. But for what it was intended for its great.

Yes no dash, bought it in 93 new.

 

[Homerboy]

I never really counted that was a guess. 200 a year qualification X 23 years = 4600, add classes and personal practice that seems like a good number. Even better when it is their ammo! I still shoot it a few times a year. A very solid gun and from what I remember it was adopted specifically for the DAO and it’s +P durability. The one thing you will appreciate over a standard J frame is the high back strap which forces you to hold high. Makes it a very natural pointer and with a good set of boot grips the steel gun is a pleasant shooter. You will like it. Mine is promised to my son so I replaced my J frame with a new 638 for pocket carry. The two things that I didn’t like was it is a bit heavy for the pocket and every once in a while I like single action. But for what it was intended for its great.

Yes no dash, bought it in 93 new.

Yep. I know the job had Model 60’s with a spurless hammer, but there were issues with light strikes due to the lighter mass of the hammer and they were no longer authorized. The 640 came in to take its place at just the right time. Pretty rare to tell a cop they can’t carry a gun they paid for. They were usually grandfathered in. They did the same with the Kahr K9. Pulled it off the street entirely. I sold my old PD 640 long ago. I did replace it with another one, but it’s not an NYPD gun. Mine wears Pachmayr Compact grips. The smaller ones. They make a set that is pretty big. The skinny wood grips for J and even K frames never fit my hand well and I shoot much better with the Pachmayr grips.

 

[Rock185]

If it's of any help, I bought my model 640 no dash new about '93-94 IIRC. I carried and qualified with it, occasionally shot it recreationally, etc . Not thousands of rounds, but most everything I shot in it has been +P. Never an issue, and I would not hesitate to shoot more +P in it.

FWIW, The similar little S&W 940 9mm revolver, even with standard pressure ammunition, operates at a much higher pressure than 38+P.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Having both, the 940 has a noticeably sharper recoil with 115 gr loads. It's fine with 147s, which are balistically much closer to .38 Spl.
I've a well traveled +P that put down a road hit deer, ended up with a buddy, and was given back to me when he passed.
Love Centennials in general, and it's a tossup between the older 640 and the current 640 Pro.
Moon

 

[unclenunzie]

If I found a 640-1 357 it would be hard to resist.

 

[halfmoonclip]

If I found a 640-1 357 it would be hard to resist.

The 640 Pro is classed a 640-1, and has no lock. The Pro also has night sights that you really can see, and use.
There was a favorable review in one of the gunzines when they first came out, and I had to track mine down on Gunbroker.
Moon

 

[Homerboy]

If I found a 640-1 357 it would be hard to resist.

i can’t really get into the .357 version of the 640. The NYPD went to the 640-1 but in .38 only. The lines are all wrong. I’d never shoot .357 in a j frame and it’s just too beefy looking for the purpose it serves.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Call me reckless but I have a fair amount of experience with S&W J frames and I would be comfortable with +P full time.

As an anecdote, I have exclusively shot a thousand or so +P rounds in my 1968 S&W Model 38 Airweight.

I have heard a legend or myth that any S&W with a model number can fire +P safely. Don’t know if that is limited amount or not though.

An all steel J frame can take +P. This is not an endorsement just an opinion.

There is wisdom in following the manufacturers recommendations though.

 

[Riomouse911]

I had the same 1991 vintage 640, I carried it as a duty backup and off duty gun for several years.

+P loads were standard fodder, not a bit of wear showed on it before I traded it for a 2.5” Model 19.

Cool gun!

Stay safe.

 

[unclenunzie]

Today, 5 rounds each just for chrono. First time with new Altamont Falconia grips. No issues, shoots real easy compared to an Airweight. The grips are not perfect in execution, but their performance is excellent. Great handling, feel, and they look pretty good in a modern boot grip.

Federal Train and Protect VHP158 GR (TP38VHP1) standard pressure av 698 es 52 sd 21
Speer Gold Dot 135 GR +P (23921) av 793 es 103 sd 54
Winchester Ranger Bonded 130 GR +P (RA38B) av 794 es 105 sd 41

I think I'll keep her