1st IDPA shoot tonight, couple of questions

[627PCFan]

So I finally got off my butt and shot my 1st IDPA round today. I was running my 1911 with standard 7 round mags and it was not a fun experience and I have a couple of questions. 1. for you 1911 guys, when your getting the COF explained, do you notice that its set up for high cap guns? I felt like all 3 stages were more oriented for guns with mags over 8 rounds? How do you handle this? 2nd question, on the last stage, I had to reload mags and walked away from the firing line RO while he explained the COF (we were shooting very fast and I only had 4 mags with me). He instructed the rear RO (Just there for overall supervision to instruct me on the COF.) The rear RO told me: mag 1, 6 rounds-slide lock reload, then mag 2 strong hand only with 7 rounds----reload with retention and mag 3 seven rounds support hand only. I walked up shot the string and the forward RO gave me 3 penalties. 2 for shooting 7 rounds on the last 2 mags. I was not told to shoot 6. I was told only to load 7 rounds in the mag, of which I shot and I explained that however the firing line RO didnt want to hear it. The other penalty was for dropping the mag which I picked up(more lost time) Should I have been assessed those penalties for the extra rounds?

My 1st run was perfect, no errors or misses.
2nd run I had to reload 3x because of my mag capacity so I tried to really rock and roll and it cost me. (this is why I asked question 1)
3rd wasnt bad on target but the time further killed me.

 

[Jim Watson]

1. Depending on the Match Director, IDPA stages may well appear to be set up for ESP and SSP 10 round guns. They cannot be set up for true high capacity because the absolute maximum in IDPA is 10+1. A conscientious MD will not make things too tough for CDP and CCP at 8+1 or BUG and Revolver at 6. But it sounds like your guy was going for high round count.
Don't worry about it, you are not (officially) competing against the ten-shooters.

2. A 7 shot magazine is at a disadvantage where 8 is allowed. If you stay with it, budget for some good 8 shot magazines. CMC Power Mags are ok and Metalform Pro look good. Wilson and Tripp are very good but more expensive. Note that all magazines must be loaded the same; if you have a mixture of 7s and 8s, you can still only load 7+1.

3. The stage is what is known hereabouts as the O.S. Drill; as in Oh, Merde. It is normally shot with Limited scoring, six and only six shots per load. Sounds like either the scorekeeper did not explain it correctly or you did not understand what was said.

 

[johnandersonoutdoors]

Hey PCFAN. Hope you got some enjoyment out of it nonetheless.

In my mind the setup of the stage, as you described it, and the resulting confusion and penalty can only mean one thing. The instructions to you should have also mentioned that you are only supposed to shoot 6 out of each mag. That lines up with the reload with retention added in there.

The second mag has to have at least one left in it when you do the reload with retention, otherwise you wouldn't be retaining it. At least that is what I am getting from the stage description based on my previous experience. If I am correct, you pleaded your case and the RO decided not to suggest or allow a re-shoot for whatever reason. Did anyone mention a re-shoot? What did the other competitors do on the stage? Did they do it with our without penalties?

 

[tarosean]

Live and learn, wont be your first Penalty. Hope you enjoyed yourself none the less.

 

[MrBorland]

I felt like all 3 stages were more oriented for guns with mags over 8 rounds? How do you handle this?

I hear this a lot from revolver shooters, and my advice is the same: How anyone else shoots the stage has no bearing on your shooting. Shooting your best is all you can do, but thinking about how easy a stage is for others is not only a distraction, it gives yourself permission to underperform before you've even gotten to the line. In short, griping about how disadvantaged you are because of your gun is a bad habit, and one best not adopted. The game will be more fun and you'll do better without it.

I had to reload mags and walked away from the firing line RO while he explained the COF

Always hang out to hear the CoF description from the source. And of there are any questions, ask. You can load mags afterward.

 

[Sam1911]

So I finally got off my butt and shot my 1st IDPA round today.

Awesome!

I was running my 1911 with standard 7 round mags and it was not a fun experience

Using the more common 8-round mags can help smooth things out a little.

1. for you 1911 guys, when your getting the COF explained, do you notice that its set up for high cap guns? I felt like all 3 stages were more oriented for guns with mags over 8 rounds? How do you handle this?

In theory they aren't "set up" for any specific gun. They are just a random (quasi-) real-world shooting challenge you might encounter. Just as you can't expect to tell a gang of five thugs, "Hold on, this isn't fair, my gun's capacity is more suited for dealing with just four of you..." you can't expect a match stage to be tailored to be particularly "friendly" to whatever gun you want to shoot.

Fortunately, that really doesn't matter, at all. You don't compete against the 10+1 guns with your .45 1911, so how they shoot it or how good the stage is for them doesn't matter to you. Now, choosing to use mags that put you one round below all the other .45 1911 guys sure may kick you in the butt. So I'd find four or five 8-round mags for next time.

2nd question, on the last stage, I had to reload mags and walked away from the firing line RO while he explained the COF (we were shooting very fast and I only had 4 mags with me). He instructed the rear RO (Just there for overall supervision to instruct me on the COF.) The rear RO told me: mag 1, 6 rounds-slide lock reload, then mag 2 strong hand only with 7 rounds----reload with retention and mag 3 seven rounds support hand only. I walked up shot the string and the forward RO gave me 3 penalties. 2 for shooting 7 rounds on the last 2 mags. I was not told to shoot 6. I was told only to load 7 rounds in the mag, of which I shot and I explained that however the firing line RO didnt want to hear it.

Sounds like a bit of a muddle. Worry about loading mags when the CSO (CHIEF Safety Officer) is not talking. He probably explained what he wanted better than the secondary safety officer did.

Next, the "load 7" thing is generally an IDPA game rule that comes up IF the stage is a "Limited" scoring stage. I'm sure that the SOs DID in fact say the shot strings were limited to only six rounds each. If you were supposed to only shoot six rounds, IDPA says you need 7 in the mag so that you have to remember and stay on track, rather than having the gun run dry and "remind" you about the limited shot count. So any time there's a "Limited" stage, they're going to tell you you have to have at least one extra round in the mag -- so you have the ability to screw it up if you choose to.

But if you don't know all these game rules and concepts, it is very easy to miss the SO saying "limited" and understanding what that means. I'm a bit surprised the SOs didn't take the time to make sure a new shooter completely understood what he was supposed to do. I always try to, because being baffled the the terms and instructions, and then penalized because you don't understand is just frustrating and miserable for someone just starting out.

 

[Jim Watson]

But if you don't know all these game rules and concepts, it is very easy to miss the SO saying "limited" and understanding what that means.

This is known as "learning the rules three seconds at a time." If you don't know the rules, you get Procedural Error penalties.
The official rules have just kept piling on layer upon layer of minute detail to control every aspect of a match. I wish there were a "Readers Digest" version that would get you 90% of what you needed to know in two pages. There used to be some good video + text introductions, but the best one I know is two editions behind the rulebook.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

As a relatively new shooter myself (to games, anyway), I can understand the getting penalties. I got quite a few of them my first few matches. Usually about Tactical Sequence or Tactical priority, or cover, so some such.

As far as how the stages are laid out, I am with MrBorland: You just have to 'run what you brung' and do the best you can.

If you are competing to win your division or the entire match, you are going to want to know all the rules and optimize everything you can (get 8 round mags, switch to an SSP or ESP division if you want to win the match).

If you are there to have good time and get better at shooting (my philosophy), then you should be fine.
Obviously, don't get penalties that you know will be penalties, but I wouldn't sweat them when they happen.

Its a bummer that the secondary SO didn't know what was what, but for those kinds of things I just chalk it up to experience and call it 'lesson learned. Get it straight from the horses mouth."

Don't let this discourage you from a fun game that will make you a better shooter.

 

[g.willikers]

There's quite a few of these types of matches.
Every one has it's rules, and they're all different.
Spend some time with the rule book.
There's also good tips on places like thepowerfactorshow.
http://www.powerfactorshow.com/

 

[627PCFan]

All good points from everyone. Definitely made me feel better about it. I figured Id give it another go in a month and see how things iron out. Time to upgrade to some 8 rounders.

 

[9mmepiphany]

1. for you 1911 guys, when your getting the COF explained, do you notice that its set up for high cap guns? I felt like all 3 stages were more oriented for guns with mags over 8 rounds? How do you handle this?

I just shoot it the best way my personal magazine capacity allows. You think 7/8 rounds capacity is tough, you should try shooting a revolver with one 6 rounds.

The good thing is that you are only competing with other 1911 shooters with like capacity magazines...assuming that you upgrade to 8 rounders

2nd question, on the last stage, I had to reload mags and walked away from the firing line RO while he explained the COF (we were shooting very fast and I only had 4 mags with me).

I've found that the best time to reload your mags is after you have just completed shooting a stage. Sign your score sheet, collect your brass, and go back to reload your mags for the next stage.

4 mags are plenty, since you're only allowed to carry 2 extra reloads besides the magazine in the gun during a CoF.

By IDPA rule, the CoF cannot exceed 18 shots. So even just using 7rd mags, you would be fine with 22 rounds...as long as you don't miss steel poppers (of course, this is coming from a guy who starts the day with 10 loaded magazines...and I'm shooting in ESP)