223 Load development and cost

[Lokichoki]

Hello THR,
I wanted to re visit a post I made on a cheap 223 round I developed and posted details. First off what I was looking for was to make a round as cheap as I could and yet still have decent accuracy to be able to hunt small game etc. This post I will show the data and the cost involved since it really shocked me when I did the math.

Here is a excerpt from the load data I wrote then I will do the math on cost

"I chose to use my Lee double cavity C225-55-RF and use trail boss for this test. Using Federal brass that has been fire formed I tumbled them all night as usual and trimmed to 1.75 and flash hole uniformed and neck sized. I did not bother to weigh every case or check there capacity. I sorted my cast little 22's they ranged from 56.4 to 56.8 the majority being 56.7-.8 and had little to cull due to me removing most that were off before knocking them into the ice water bucket to quench, I will say that it takes awhile with lee's mold to get a good bullet since the bullets are so small the mold heats slowly and if for any reason you have to stop for even a minute reheating isnecessary also you have to let the sprue cool so the bullets base get cut cleanly so there is definitely a learning curve but nonetheless doable. Anyways I did not gas check these bullets due to not having a ready supply locally and keeping the round as cheap as possible was the theme. The lead is kinda softer I feel then I'd like I have no WW and just range scrap and Magnum buckshot I repurposed but leading hasn't been an issue at these speeds. Without further adu here is what happened and load data

223 REM (FC brass) Load #1
Fire formed and neck sized
TTL:1.75
56.7gr .225 LFN-gc (no check sized .224)
CCI #400 3.5gr Trail Boss (1072816 5573)
Lightly Crimped , C.O.L 2.085

Description: 223 55gr lfn #1
Distance to Chrono (FT): 4.00
Ballistic Coefficient: NA
Bullet Weight (gr): .56.7
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 74
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
5 1126 0.00 0.00
4 1135 0.00 0.00
3 1143 0.00 0.00
2 1151 0.00 0.00
1 1147 0.00 0.00
Average: 1140.40
StdDev: 9.99
Min: 1126
Max: 1151
Spread: 25
True MV: 1140.40
Shots/sec: 0.07
Group Size (IN): 0.95 (AVG)@50YDS"


Now to the math,
The lead is mostly range scrap with whatever else I could find to try and harden it so
Lead=free
The powder is Trail Boss which this load uses 3gr. The bottle contains 255.4 grams for a total of 3,941.42 grains so a bottle makes 1,313.8081 rounds
Powder per round=0.01597
The primers I use are CCI #400 they cost me 34.99 per 1,000
Primer per round=0.03499
The brass is free and I have enough for a lifetime.

So my price per round is $0.05096 pretty thrifty I say and when I had the opportunity to shoot this through some doctor coats ballistic gel it went clean through a 18" gel block with even sizedbpermanent damage throughout (not massive but consistent)

So there it is I will probably in the future use wheel weights and use gas checks and see if I can tighten groups although no leading has been observed with this softer lead. I'll name it the "THE CROW SMASHER"

 

[hdwhit]

Lokichoki wrote:
...I had the opportunity to shoot this through some doctor coats ballistic gel it went clean through a 18" gel block with even sizedbpermanent damage throughout (not massive but consistent)

While I want to compliment you on your achievement, the 223 is, by definition, a high velocity round and loading cast bullets down to the velocities where they don't disintegrate on the way to the target deprives the round of what it is fully capable of achieving with proper jacketed bullets.

 

[Lokichoki]

Yes and we all know what these velocities mean the idea is the ability to take game for extended periods of time if the need arises, can you reload 22lr when it's dried up and (*insert fav shtf scenario) ? No? A light bottle and box is a 1000 rnds! It's logistically viable to carry as a bug out reload setup is it not.

 

[Lokichoki]

That and I'm poor and introduce alot of younger / new people to the world of shooting and I feel setting them down with a suppresed custom rifle a cooler way than a model 60 etc, the round has more to it than your thinking

 

[Lokichoki]

*Last reply I swear*
The last two messages are not mentioned to be mean in anyway just thought provoking they seem it but not what I mean. On to the ballistic gel, I am not a ballistician admittedly I can record numbers but cannot see what they mean aside from taking small game and recording, when I had the opportunity at the range to use this gel I was super thrilled and wouldn't of thought it would go through cleanly and deeply that's all, sure I have my medium game round (barnes ttsx ) that would blow half the block apart and is extremely accurate (see my post RARanch experience) but it was this underwelming little round that I got a kick out of.

 

[Load Master]

Lokichoki, though I can appreciate the time and effort put into developing your low cost round in .223, you have left off one of the cost factors, your time. Yes, I know it is a hobby, but even a hobby most people wouldn't do it for someone else for free, so your time is worth something and that should be factored in to come up with a true cost. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Lokichoki]

Your absolutely right about time but to factor the cost is not something easily put to a cost per round on a hobby level since not many people get paid for there hobby, the practice of handloading cartridges is to not only save money but get what you want out of a particular round. the ability to make 1000 rounds for $55 allows me to spend less time at work to earn the money to pay for the time on the trigger so toss that up in the air, so how long does it take? Doesn't matter it is in itself a hobby and allows me to provide food and teach at the same time priceless : ) that being said I really want a progressive press haha

 

[rjbmjb]

I guess it depends on what you do with the time if you weren't reloading. If the alternative is to have a few beers in front of the TV, I would argue that the cost of the beer should be subtracted from the cost of the ammo

 

[Lokichoki]

Well put haha

 

[Varminterror]

I've seen a lot of this type of thread over the years on different forums. As others have commented, I'm not a fan of any paradigm where a cartridge gets crippled for the sake of economy. It would save me a lot of money annually if I used similar loads in my firearms classes, but I have no desire to spend that time or live with those performance reductions, and would rather pay a touch more for the loads. I run 50grn V-max's for about 31c per shot. Never have cried over that extra quarter, compared to casting my own and running a pistol powder.

But why I really commented - every time I see this kind of thread, or whenever I hear "free lead and free brass," I can't help but see mental pictures of either dumpster diving, scrap hauling, or welfare. There's value in range brass and reclaimed lead, and most ranges capitalize upon that value - if they choose to give it away, I suppose that's their choice to sustain a spirit of charity in their business. But without a larger network of paying shooters providing your brass and lead supply, that welfare program dries up. If everyone tried to live in that paradigm, nobody could survive. I also know what it means when I leave brass on the range floor - it means I've shot the living **** out of it and consider it to be wasted. Guys make money "picking up scrap metal for free," because there is value in the "scrap," but they recognize many folks are too lazy to realize value for themselves. It's a sensitivity I have, because I've never really ever seen anything "free" to actually be such, except charity, so these threads aren't realistic for all shooters - only for a small subsection of folks who can wedge themselves into a cash-paid paradigm.

 

[Load Master]

The equipment needed to reload has a cost and some level of depreciation. Many never take this into account in the cost of each round. I'm not saying there is anything wrong one way or the other, just that all of us have our personal thoughts to justify our "hobbies".

 

[Lokichoki]

The lead comes from the same range I put it back into as well as the amount of brass I've collected straight from the shooters themselves who would just as easily leave it on the ground as well as all there trash, there's me who ask nicely for the brass once fired then (at my range) there are drug addicts who come and don't ask rudely and I believe this is true for many public ranges. The premise that not everyone can get brass for free is true but the idea of paying the outrageous price box stores want for new brass is the large push to "dumpster dive brass" . Believe it or not this load is what I can afford and paying 25c more per round just simply isn't in the budget for me at a scale I want and add to the fact it's very well suited for the job of pest control and small game and has never failed in that duty why would I pay that extra when it's just that extra?

 

[Lokichoki]

Loadmaster,
Yes there is the inherent cost of the equipment to reload but just as factoring the time into a ppr is not useful , the reason is it would make everyone else's ppr irrelevant to your own. Without separating these factors in determining the cost then it would make it near impossible to use as a measurable repeatable # and cost is an important factor to most to determine wether to reproduce or not hence why the price of the material locally to me was important to add.

 

[someguy2800]

I think its pretty neat. Why does a cartridge always need to be loaded to max performance? Nobody has a problem with loading 357 magnum to 38 special velocity. If you have a Cabelas near you, you can often get S&B primers for $20/100. It looks like that would considerably reduce your ongoing expense in reloading. I would like to see what it would do with a few grains of red dot to get velocity up to about 22 magnum.

 

[Lokichoki]

Thank you some guy I do love every comment so far and the thoughts provoked. I have used greed dot 2400 bullseye etc but not red dot, the problem was ignition with small powder charge so SD was kinda up and down. I would like to try the bulkier red dot and do not think it would have the same problems but have no other use for red dot, I use green dot and 2400 for all my scattergun needs. Trailboss was used because adding the idea of shtf or a panic buy it can be used in almost any cartridge

 

[reddog81]

Any round using free bullets, free brass and only using a couple grains of pistol powder is going to be around $.05. I can reload .30-06 for under $.10 and even include the cost of buying the lead and get over 1500 FPS.

 

[Lokichoki]

Red dog I included cost to round out the whole reason of bringing all this data to you take it as you will if you can reload 30-06 for this or that Congratulations but this isn't a contest

 

[Varminterror]

I'd get better gas mileage if I drove a 50cc scooter to work too, but it takes a lot longer to drive 100k/yr at 40mph than it does at 80mph.

 

[Lokichoki]

That is not a good analogy.

 

[Lokichoki]

Varmint you don't have a need for this round I get it . you want the rounds potential for your application so what? You ask it to do one thing but it can do other things that you don't need so this is an irrelevant load??? That doesn't make sense

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I try to be frugal but not cheap.
So my 223 loads are 55 gr and 62 gr purchased from RMR or Everglades depending on who has the better deal. In fact if I had some cash right now I’d jump on the mixed 223 pulled bullets that RMR as I’d love to try some of the stuff they have in the mix. The 6 cent a bullet is just too cheap not to try.

So that or the more common 10 to 12 centavos for the aforementioned 55 or 62 gr, primers and powder. Add my brass which is a mix of range pickup and from factory that I got before I started reloading, primers at 3 cents each then powder and I don’t have the cheapest loads but still decent rounds that are less expensive than if I purchased stuff better than the cheapest factory stuff.

 

[Lokichoki]

Hey Hokie! I went to Radford and "wahoo waa"!! I always joke Techians come to party we go (too VT) to not catch a std
I will check them out.I always like a good deal. I've tried the the big bags of random bullets before and found them time consuming but then again I can run them in my AR's so there's that

 

[rskent]

I'd get better gas mileage if I drove a 50cc scooter to work too, but it takes a lot longer to drive 100k/yr at 40mph than it does at 80mph.

That’s a great analogy. But sometimes it’s just more fun to ride the scooter. Sometimes it just doesn’t matter how long it takes.

 

[Lokichoki]

It was but the format wasn't agreeable to me so I said it wasn't : ) it's funny you say that I'm about to ride my 86 clipper all-trac to the local fishing hole

 

[reddog81]

I know it's not a contest, but I can buy .22 lr for les than $.05 per round if I want .22 lr ballistics.

My previous post was to point out the possibility of applying the same logic to larger rounds and it even remains relatively cheap if you include the cost of lead.

No need to get offended by everyone commenting on your thread. It's the internet people have opinions.