223 reload help

[marcodo]

Been reloading pistol cartridges for about 2 yrs without too many issues. Just got my first DPMS AR15 and wanted to venture into the 223 reload underworld.

I have a Redding Turret single stage press that has served me well. I have new RCBS 223 dies. I took once fired brass (remmington in this case). I don't have a brass trimmer yet so I measured them. They all measure around 1.750 to 1.755.

I full length resized them and loaded with H335 (started with24 g) and then put winchester 55 g FMJBT and ran it through the other die (forgot what that is called). I put the crimp into the groove on the bullet.

They came out looking nice. I started with an OAL of about 2.220 or so.

Just for the heck of it (I know people are going to have issues with this...but I did it safely) I loaded a mag and tried to cycle them through the gun.

Unfortunately just about every other round stuck in the barrel and I could not eject it despite pulling extremely hard on the charging handle. The bolt seizes up. I eventually needed to put a screwdriver througth the ejection port and force back the bolt to get it out. OOCH! Happened pretty reproducibly

I then shortened the rounds all the way down to 2.100 OAL without change. I then kept increasing the crimp until it started buckeling the brass...again without change.


I took factory PMC 55 gr loads and took measurements. OAL 2.250 and they all cycled fine.

It almost seems that they are not properly resized but I have the resizing die turned all the way down and I also took spot measurements of the cases and they seem to be pretty close (say +/- .003) at all spots checked.

Obviously since the factory rounds feed and eject fine, it must be something I'm doing to myself

Please help out a 223 brother!

 

[steve4102]

The two main reasons for this is,
One, your brass was not sized properly and the shoulder needs to be bumped back more. How did you set up your Full Length Die? You may need to screw the die in more until the brass chambers.

Two, your crimp may be the problem. Are you crimping with the "Seating" die? Are you crimping and seating in one single step or are you seating the bullet then adjusting the die to apply a crimp? If you are crimping and seating in one step you may be putting a slight bulge in the case neck. Try backing the seating die out of the press and load a round with no crimp.

 

[Grumulkin]

1. You don't need to crimp the bullet for 223 reloads. Unless you use a Lee Factory Crimp Die, crimping the bullet can wrinkle the case just enough that the rounds won't chamber.

2. You may need a small base full length resizing die but try the no crimp method first.

 

[steve4102]

I almost forgot, are you sure your RCBS dies are Full Length and not Neck dies?

 

[marcodo]

Thanks for the quick answers guys!

I believe the RCBS dies are full length...the case goes all the way in at least.

Perhaps I am setting up the resizing die wrong. I have the shell plate all the way up and then screw down the die until it hits. I lower the plate and then give it just a slight additionl turn. The shoulders did look different now that you mention it..you might be on to something. What should I do?

"Crimp" may have been too strong a word. Initially I was just trying to straighten the flare on the case...but as time went on I kept tightening it to see if it made a difference. It didn't.

Thanks

 

[ADKWOODSMAN]

Many times new reloaders, as I did when crimping many years ago, bulge the neck and they will not enter all the way into the charmer. As stated above no crimp is necssary.

 

[WNTFW]

I would suggest you get a case gauge for .223 on an AR. If your AR works with factory ammo I would say the AR is fine.

If only your reloads are sticking then they are probably too long. Too long as in from head to half way up shoulder. That is where the case gauge will help you. It also would catch a case that has another defect but still measures the right length, such as a out of round case. I have had a few .223 that would not gauge & never could find why. I threw them away.

Case length is the sum from head to halfway up shoulder & from halfway up shoulder to mouth. It is possible to have 3 case all the same length and all 3 headspace differently due to where the shoulder midpoint is on bottleneck cartridges.

Is it hard to close on the round? It doesn't take much, too long is too long. Sounds like you are right on the edge. A 1/16 turn of the die might do it.
Try a case only - no bullet, to isolate case size. That way you can resize it. It will not want to feed, so guide it in slowly by hand. Then setup a case with bullet only - no powder or primer, for safety. You can also open up the AR and cycle the bolt carrier by hand for a better feel. A case gauge is easier. You verify that your AR & case gauge coincide at first though.

On .223 I would make sure you are using a good enough case lube. I found my cases size more consistently with a better lube.

 

[bullseye308]

I would make up some dummy rounds with no primer or powder and use them to get everything worked out. This is not the time to be using live ammo. Once you get it figured out keep the ones that fit and use them to setup your dies from now on.

 

[doorman]

RCBS full length resize dies will be marked FL. Also, you might try removing your upper and dropping the loaded rounds into the chamber. If they drop in and fall out when you point the muzzle toward the ceiling you should be good to go. I chamber check all my reloads to reduce issues while at the range.

 

[Historian]

+1 for a case gauge. I load .223 exclusivley and would not be without my gauge. I also use an RCBS head space mic. to check my sizing die as to exactly where it is leaving the cartridge shoulder. I also agree that you don't need to crimp. I shoot an AR and have never found the need to crimp. I keep my OAL at 2.250"

Historian

 

[steve4102]

I believe the RCBS dies are full length...the case goes all the way in at least.

The "Full Length Die is marked FL and will size the case body and the neck, a must for semi-autos. A Neck Sizing die will only re-size the neck, a no-no for semi-autos. The case will go "all the way in" with both of these dies. Take a look at the markings on the die and let us know what it says.

The generic way to set up an FL sizing die. Raise the ram and screw the die in until it touches the shell holder. Lower the ram and screw the die into the press 1/8 turn more. Lock the lock ring. Lube and size a piece of brass. Check to see if it chambers. If not screw the die in 1/8 turn more until a sized piece of brass chambers.

The generic way to set up an RCBS seating die. Raise the ram and screw the die in until it touches the shell holder. Lower the ram and unscrew the die one full turn, lock the ring. This will set up the die so there is no unwanted crimp. Adjustments to OAL or seating depth are done by screwing the seating stem (inside shaft) in or out.

 

[matrem]

Full length size..Then measure case length.

 

[redneck2]

I strongly suspect that OAL is NOT the problem. Typically, AR's have plenty of throat. I load my Bushie to mag length with no problems.

Take one of your longest OAL rounds and black the bullet with a marker. I'd be very surprised if it touches the lands when chambered if it fits in the mag.

 

[marcodo]

Thanks Guys

It is a full length die.

Sounds like this might be a resizing problem

I'll play with it this weekend and report back

Couldn't have done it with ya'

Just ordered a case trimmer and a 223 case gage which should help

 

[Borg]

Sounds like you have the die set right,,, but if you didn't lube the INSIDE of the neck,, you just pulled the shoulder out when you extracted the expander ball.
Try lubing the necks.
Borg

 

[NDGeek]

Funny, a friend had the EXACT SAME PROBLEM at the range today. His is a DPMS with a 5.56 barrel. The rounds shoot just fine through my Rock River 16 inch barrel. It looks like a slight shoulder bulge when reloading.

We'll back off on the crimp and make sure it's fully sized, hope that fixes it. Thanks for posting the advice guys!

 

[dave from mesa]

+1 for all the above.

Initially I was just trying to straighten the flare on the case.

There should be no flare to straighten. You don't need to bell rifle cases unless you are using lead bullets.

 

[748]

If you want to crimp it sounds like you will want to think about getting a Lee factory crimp die.
I also recomending getting a seater die for each type of bullet that forces you to reset the dies (bullet styles you use a lot of). M855/SS109, M193 and most spitzer bullets can use the same seater die, if you find a 60gr soft point or some 40gr HP that you like you will want to pick up a 2nd die. That way you spend a lot less time screwing with the seater die and end up with a lot less rounds you have to take apart.