.223 rem on whitetail deer?

[scaatylobo]

Shot placement & bullet design !

IF you spend the time to get the shot placement AND you use a decent round that performs as the stuff I use does = your gtg if you want to.

I keep the shots under 150 yards [ perfect for the woods I hunt ] and use ANY high end bullet over 62 grains.

Just bought a Mossberg MVP in 5.56/.223 and its shoots better than I can.

As was mentioned prior,IF you live long enough to have a shoulder replaced [ I just did ] or lose a limp,then you might REALLY appreciate and understand the use of thiis round.

The caliber and LACK of recoil as well as the newest bullet designs allow you to shoot a very reasonable round that will do most anything in the North American hunting AO you want.

the only game I would avoid is bear as they have a very thinck skin and can get 'unpleasant' if wounded.

 

[scaatylobo]

Bottom is the MVP - top is 30-30 and middle is Ruger Scout in .308.

The MVP kicks a great deal less than either.

 

[03Shadowbob]

Johnboy
I've taken a number of deer in the brush with an AR in 223 and all were DRT with either neck shots or high shoulder/spine shots at 100yards or so. I made sure there was a super clean path though to the animal. In thicker brush I prefer my 35remington lever.

 

[mac66]

I've killed two does with the 223 out of an AR15. One was about 75 yards the other about 40. Both heart/lung shots, both deer took off ran 50 yards or so and died. The only reason I used an AR was so I could say it could be done and I've done it. If anybody says an AR15 has no sporting purpose, I've proved them wrong. I typically use a bolt action 308, a lever action Marlin in 35 rem or 375 Win, but I like to use other stuff to cull the does I have on my property.

 

[idcurrie]

It is beyond me how anyone could think that these two projectiles are in the same class and are to be used on the same class of game...


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Or how these cartridges could be considered in the same class or for use on the same class of game:


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green shot

 

[jrdolall]

ID I think you are missing the point. Nobody thinks that the .223 is the optimal cartridge for medium size game. I assure you that, despite your comments, my technique has been more than sufficient to harvest small, medium and big game all over the world using everything from .22 LR up to the "safari" rounds used in South Africa. 30 years ago I could shoot the nail that was holding the target on the tree at 100 yards freehand with a 25-06 but now I might struggle to hit the target freehand. My eyes and body are not what they were but I can't recall the last time I shot a deer that ran more than 100 yards because there is a big difference in punching paper and punching animals. I get a good rest, take my shots selectively and ALWAYS put the bullet in the honey pocket because I have never been all that comfortable shooting at an animals neck. I have done it on very close shots but just prefer behind the shoulder.
Multiple posters have indicated that they have successfully killed deer using the lowly 223 but none of them said it was the best round for the job. It is perfectly capable of killing a whitetail deer if the shooter knows what he is doing.

 

[dvdcrr]

I have had good luck with 223 out to 100 yds on deer. Seems to be very lethal short range caliber. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot even a large deer out to 150-175. In fact I would rather shoot a 223 at short range than a 257 mag. That's been my experience. That being said go pick up a reasonably cheap k31 and let the fun begin!

 

[Agsalaska]

Sure. If the deer are small enough, you are close enough, and you know what you are doing. My brother in law dropped a doe this year from about 40 yards with a 22mag.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I just use a 9x19.. pistol (well, and other stuff). If you land "it" good, it's good. There's no sense arguing about broken bones, chopped meat and a dead animal.

 

[Txhillbilly]

I laugh every time this argument comes up.

It's just a whitetail deer!

They aren't that hard to kill,but you do need to have good shot placement on any game animal if you want to kill it,and not wound it.
Using any of the .224 caliber bullets designed for game hunting,and not a varmint bullet,a deer will drop every time you shoot one within 150 yards. I prefer to use a 65 gr Sierra Gameking,or a 70 gr Speer soft point out of a 1-9 twist barrel.

 

[Kachok]

It all boils down to this.
YES you certanly can kill a deer quickly with a 223 with proper shot placement and good bullet selection, I don't think anyone here is debating that point, or not anyone who has ever used a 223 before anyway. The same can be said for 45ACP, 30 Carbine, 9mms and a whole host of other marginal cartridges.
NO the 223 is not a 270 or 308 it does not give you the effective range or versatility of the larger cartridges, there are shots that I could confidently take with my 30-06/7mm-08/6.5x55...etc that I would never dream of trying with any .224" bore, if all shots were pristine 40 yard neck shots there would be alot more people hunting with 223s but in the real world the deer don't walk up and pose for us so the vast majority of experienced hunters use 243 caliber or larger for very good reason.
Using a marginal cartridge is a handicap much like hunting with a bow, you have to be very mindful of your range and or angle but alot of people like the challenge, me personally I am more of a meat hunter and like being able to take a raking shot with confidence in a very quick clean kill. My 6.5x55 gives me through and through penetration any way but lengthwise, minimal meat damage, lightning quick kills, large free bleeding exit wounds just in case I ever do need to track, great trajectory/accuracy/range, and does all that with a bare minimum of recoil that children and small framed women can handle with ease, unless I suddenly feel the urge to make things more challenging I see absolutely no reason to use a 223.

 

[sixgunner455]

idcurrie - I'd be a bit more circumspect about how you speak about other peoples' medical conditions, and how they adapt to still be able to hunt and shoot. You're coming off quite abrasive, and there is just no need for that.

 

[Davek1977]

I've taken SD whitetails....which are certainly closer in size to canadian deer than southern whitetails...with the .223, and wouldn't hesitate to do so again. That said, I know my limitations, the limitation of the caliber, etc. I would not recommend just anyone with a .223 use it for deer hunting. The adequateness of the .223 for moose and bear shouldn't even be part of this discussion in any way, as no one suggested the .223 be used for such a purpose. If I have a deer tag...and am hunting deer.....I could care less how my gun performs on moose. I'm hunting a specific quarry, not blasting at anything that has four legs and hair. I am perfectly comfortable taking a deer with the .223 round. I wouldn't dream of using it on elk, moose, or bear unless it was a do or die situation. Bringing up other big game animals brings absolutely nothing to this discussion. If I'm discussing a VW Beetle's performance on the highway, telling me it has no place in the Indy 500 seems rather silly, since none one made any such claim, nor do I think anyone believes it.

 

[Sentryau2]

I suggest useing the heaviest bullet u can find 77otm is very VERY nice ive taken 3 deer with it through a bolt gun at around 500 yards with a 75$ scope so I know it can be done (im taking frontal shots (heart) or spine shots from the side) I didnt have any of thoes deer run, but you have to be comfortable doing that with your gun, Id NEVER attempt that with my ar-15 (mainly due to not having a scope ) but also because it dosent have the same feeling

 

[kingcheese]

in Indiana its not legal for use on deer, but if it was, id load up some 69grain amax and have it it up to 200yards, if the rifle handles well up close, then you can always push distances farther, as always it comes down to using the right bullet, and getting it in the right plscr

 

[scaatylobo]

@ dave 1977 = thank you

Point was well taken and well spoken.
This reminds me of the CONSTANT arguments that I hear in my state [ NY ] from the NYbowhunting assoc as to not allowing crossbows.
They can and do kill, that is THE point .
So if your an ethical hunter [ and ALL should be ] then it has NOTHING to do with caliber --- SHOT PLACEMENT is all that matters.
I have white tail deer hunted with a handhun for about 30 years and that means I take ETHICAL shots only.
I truly enjoy this and I am proud to say I have not lost a deer that I shot at -- yes I passed up shots as I was being ethical.
Now that I am older and 'almost' to a stage where the .308 Ruger scout rifle is seen as too much [ in the future ] I see no reason to not use a cartridge that can and HAS dropped deer reliably !!!,.
If any choose to not like that round ---- its a free country [ so far ] and you are free to choose another caliber,heck use a .50 caliber Ma Duece if that is your druthers and the game law allows it in your state.
I wont complain at all.
I have hunted with a 12 bore for many years and seen deer run off after a heart shot with a ONE OUNCE SLUG through them,so I can and will continue to enjoy shooting and using MANY different calibers ,through a handgun and rifle -- thank you !.

 

[BoilerUP]

Shot a doe in KY last fall at 65yd with an 80gr Amax from a 223AI @ 2900fps.

Head shot, and bullet left a fist-sized hole from inner part of right eye to right ear.

I'd probably shoot a Partition or new 64gr Bonded if hunting regularly with it, but that being said, I would not feel under-gunned taking a boiler room shot on a B&C buck with the 80gr Amax.

Certainly do more damage than a broadhead...

 

[Geno]

Seeing how well Hornady's GMX bullets have performed, I don't think one would have any difficulty ethically harvesting whitetail deer with either of the following projectiles with a .223 Rem, a 5.56 NATO. However, for my likes, I would opt for a .22-250 Rem simply for the ultra-flat trajectory.

Hornady GMX 55 grains:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/83...224-diameter-55-grain-gmx-lead-free-box-of-50

Hornady GMX 70 grains:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/51...224-diameter-70-grain-gmx-lead-free-box-of-50

For what it's worth, Hornady bills their 165 grain GMX bullet in .300 Win Mag, as being capable of taking any game in North America. At 95%+ weight retention, I am inclined to believe that, and believe that the .224 caliber projectiles will ethically harvest whitetail deer at reasonable distances.

Geno

 

[jrdolall]

The 6.5 x 55 is becoming my favorite round. I have a sporterized Swede that I got real cheap and had drilled and tapped and man it is a tack driver with VERY little recoil. I will probably kill a deer with one of the .223s this year because I can. Alabama changed the magazine restriction so now I don't need a 5 rounder for the AR.

 

[idcurrie]

Bringing up other big game animals brings absolutely nothing to this discussion.

Why not? Many of us get our Moose, Elk, and Deer tags all for use in the same 3 weeks in the same location.

It doesn't matter anyway, 223 is just as unethical and unpowered for deer as it is for moose and elk. You can easily tell by the way people use terms like "if you stay close enough", "if shot placement is JUST right", "if you choose your shots more carefully."

These are all phrases used to justify the use of a cartridge which is too small for the task at hand.

 

[jrdolall]

These are all phrases used to justify the use of a cartridge which is too small for the task at hand.

Or to justify the use of a cartridge that is more than adequate to do the job at hand.
Maybe someone can come up with a nice .50 cal with no recoil so we can make sure these deer are real dead when we shoot them. By your arguments you seem to think that bigger is better so why use a .308 when much better rounds are available?

 

[BoilerUP]

It doesn't matter anyway, 223 is just as unethical and unpowered for deer as it is for moose and elk.

One might wonder how these three armor-plated game animals are EVER cleanly and ethically harvested using a bow.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Alabama changed the magazine restriction so now I don't need a 5 rounder for the AR.

I don't remember Alabama ever having a magazine restriction for private land and I've lived and hunted Alabama all of my life(I'm 60).

 

[Certaindeaf]

I thought it interesting on "Mountain Man" or something about a year ago, one of the kids popped a marauding griz with an old-school AR.. in the dark. One shot, one dead bear.

 

[sixgunner455]

That only works if you stay close enough and your shot placement is just right, BoilerUP.