22lr, iron sights, target size& ammo

[MLC]

I took the ol CZ out to the range today despite the rain.
I was trying to get a feel for the adjustable sights and general trajectory.
I shot at 50 yards and was changing elevation to see what "one size fits all" setting would be good for whacking groundhogs and such around the farm.
I was shooting several types of ammo: CCI Green Tag, Remington jacketed round nose, CCI Velocitor and Federal bulk copper plated RN.
My targets were 1" and 2" shoot and see's.
My best groups from a rest were with the Federal ammo surprisingly.
I got a few sub 1" groups with the Federal, but, alot of my groups with the Green Tag and Velocitor were embarrassing.
What is a reasonable group size to expect at 50 yards with iron sights?
I was having a difficult time with my sight picture and groups sizes.
Perhaps I need to get my eyes checked but I was having difficulty seeing the target with the front sight in focus.
What is a reasonable size target to use at 50 yards with a 22 and iron sights?

 

[Beetle Bailey]

Great question. I've been wondering the same thing. I just got my CZ 452 earlier this month and have taken it out shooting twice now. I used a 3" orange dot sticker as my target @ 50 yards and shot a few groups that were just over an inch with Wolf Match Target ammo. That is about how I do with centerfire rifles at the same distance, but I'm gonna see if I can't do a bit better with the .22lr .

As far as having the target out of focus when you are focusing on the front sight, AFAIK that means you are doing it right. Using iron sights, you can either focus on the front sight or on the target. I don't mind being corrected, but I thought you are supposed to focus on the front sight because you can be more consistant that way. I like to wait until I can see the sharp edges of the front sight and then put it where I want to before I fire. The background is blurred, which is why I like the orange dot as a target - it's easier to pick up a blurred orange dot in the background, at least for me . I want to make my sight picture as easy as possible to make consistant. IMHO anything less than 1 inch is pretty darn good and anything that has all holes touching is great.

 

[30Cal]

An inch is pretty good shooting at 50yds for me. Try blackening the front sight w/ candle soot if you're having a hard time. Heck, try it anyways--it makes a heck of a difference. Rounded beads sometimes work better if you paint them white or orange.

If you want to shoot better than marginally, you'll need to focus on the front sight and only the front sight. Focusing on the target will get you big groups. You have to accept that the target will be somewhat fuzzy. If you just can't see the target when you're focusing on the front sight, then you'll need to get either a different target (bigger or different color) or it may be time to see the doc.

Ty

 

[MLC]

Thanks for your input.
I think that I need a larger bull so that I can aim center of mass instead of using the "dot the i/ 6 o'clock hold".
The tiny targets blurred away when I focused on the front sight.
I think it helps that I shoot with both eyes open though.
I wasn't sure if +/-1" groups were decent at 50 since I usually shoot centerfire at 100+ with scopes.
I googled the Velocitors and Green Tag since they gave mediocre performance.
Folks were talking about 1/4-1/2" at 50 yards
so I wanted to see how real folks shot with irons.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

Folks were talking about 1/4-1/2" at 50 yards

I suppose that's not totally out of the question for iron sights, but for a rookie like me, anything less than 1/2" at 50 yards means I've been shooting my buddy's $800 scoped 10/22, and shooting very well indeed. I did, however, shot a 1/4" group at 25 yards with my CZ (but until I can do it somewhat consistantly, I have to call it luck).

BTW, for my CZ I always use the 6 o'clock hold (zeroed the rifle to shoot 1" high @ 50 yards so I could use the 6 o'clock hold) because for me, I get a more consistant sight picture that way. YMMV.

 

[AC]

MLC, I would suggest you use a larger target at 50 yards and hold six o'clock. I recently tested a barrel sighted .22 (Patridge sight picture) on 3.5" bulls at 50 yards from the sand bags. My 10 shot groups ranged from 1.30" to 2.2" depending on the brand and type of ammo. I think that is about what can be expected. More consistency could be obtained with an aperture rear sight.

 

[JohnBT]

MLC - I'd suggest sticking to one brand of ammo. Switching brands without cleaning the previous lube out of the barrel can lead to some frustrating groups. If you do switch brands without cleaning it could take 10 or 50 shots for things to settle down(of course if you do clean it could still take 10 to 50 shots to settle down.)

In the words of an old rimfire shooter I know..."Whatever works."

John

 

[MLC]

John,
Perhaps the Federal was most tolerant of the lube from the other ammo then.
Luckily it was the best performer, seeing as I impulsively bought a brick of it.

 

[Steve Smith]

Try using a bigger target so you can see it, and use either a center or 6 o'clock hold.

 

[hksw]

I'm able to get 0.3-0.4 five round groups at 50 yds open sights. I do have a few things helping me out, though, to get those groups.

The platform is an Anschütz 54:18 MSR.
The sights are the Anschütz 6834 set.
The ammo is Fed Ultra Match (UM1).
The target is a 2" bullseye. Center is 1" white, black ring is ½" thick. (printed out of a printer).

The configuration of the bullseye was a significant influence. The black ring was just the perfect size to fit inside of the front sight ring and so was very easy to center. There were 1" black bullseyes also on the same sheet of paper for zeroing. When I had shot at those, the groups opened up considerably, no less than 0.75" and out to just over 1" at times. The 1" bulls were just a bit harder to keep centered in the front sight than the 2" one. The finding astounded me. I would have (armchair) guessed that the smaller target would have been easier to get better groups with.

 

[hksw]

Correction.

Looked over my notes. The groups I was getting were 0.4-0.5" with open sights.

 

[Master Blaster]

The configuration of the bullseye was a significant influence. The black ring was just the perfect size to fit inside of the front sight ring and so was very easy to center. There were 1" black bullseyes also on the same sheet of paper for zeroing. When I had shot at those, the groups opened up considerably, no less than 0.75" and out to just over 1" at times. The 1" bulls were just a bit harder to keep centered in the front sight than the 2" one. The finding astounded me. I would have (armchair) guessed that the smaller target would have been easier to get better

Some advice from a fellow Anschutz owner:

Get some of the official 50 yard small bore comtpetition targets with the black bullseye. the front sight on your annie is designed for shooting at these competition targets with the apperture insert. Try different insert sizes they are marked in MM I use the 3.3mm at 50 yards with the 50 yard official target. the black bull will float in the center of the sight insert at that distance, your eye will center it and you will shoot better.

The post insert is good for shooting at sillouhettes. Inserts cots like $2.50 each form Champions choice.

 

[Steve Smith]

Master has a good point. I shoot the 50M course at the OTC here in CO Springs. It is apparent that they guys with purpose built guns have an aperture that fits the black. Of course, they crap their pants when I clean the targets with a post sighted AR-15 A2 smallbore upper.

 

[Dave R]

I was having a difficult time with my sight picture and groups sizes.

If you can't get a consistent sight picture, you can't get good groups. Laws of physics.

Yep, a bigger bullseye, or one with more contrast, will shrink the groups. Or a smaller front sight post, if that's possible.

1" at 50 yards would be good shooting for me with iron sights.