25-06 vs whitetail
- Thread starter dubya450
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I dont think id call it better for realistic hunting. I REALY wanted one a while back, thats what i was going to rebarrel my savage 7mm to, but i got a deal on the .300 barrel and dies...i wonder why...
Anyway, youll want a long tube with the .264. Id say 26 would be minimum, but there are enough folks shooting a .257WBM out of a 24, who might disagree. You need to use pretty healthy charges of slow powder to get the most of a .264, and it WILL eat your barrel.
For deer at reasonable ranges, no its not a better choice, for sheer awesomeness its pretty well up there tho. You stretch that sucker out and it will shine also. Im pretty sure you could hit 3200 with high BC 140s the right powder and a 26"+ barrel.
Now that im thinking about it again, when i get my .300 back i may change it to a .264 instead of another 7mm.
Anyway, youll want a long tube with the .264. Id say 26 would be minimum, but there are enough folks shooting a .257WBM out of a 24, who might disagree. You need to use pretty healthy charges of slow powder to get the most of a .264, and it WILL eat your barrel.
For deer at reasonable ranges, no its not a better choice, for sheer awesomeness its pretty well up there tho. You stretch that sucker out and it will shine also. Im pretty sure you could hit 3200 with high BC 140s the right powder and a 26"+ barrel.
Now that im thinking about it again, when i get my .300 back i may change it to a .264 instead of another 7mm.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
The .264 is a great cartridge as to performance, but it's a lot more than is really necessary for 99% of deer hunting.
It's pretty well established that the vast majority of deer kills are from within a couple of hundred yards. For that distance, an accurate .30-30 is plenty of "killing power". That we use hotter cartridges is a matter of personal preference rather than any real need.
Granted, more specialized hunting in wide-open country is a whole different set of needs...
It's pretty well established that the vast majority of deer kills are from within a couple of hundred yards. For that distance, an accurate .30-30 is plenty of "killing power". That we use hotter cartridges is a matter of personal preference rather than any real need.
Granted, more specialized hunting in wide-open country is a whole different set of needs...
I'm a big fan of efficient cartridges and non-barrel burners. Having this philosophy alleviates me from getting a lot of kick and blast too. I never shoot beyond 300 yards, so have no need for a Magnum. Others will have differening needs and opinions.
Kachok
Member
I think everyone on here knows I am a card carrying member of the 6.5 cult, but I honeslty don't care for the 264 win mag much, they are VERY hard on barrels, more so then any other cartrage except for maby the 7mm RUM. I would much rather have a 6.5 Rem Mag, they match or exceede the 264s performance burning less powder, and they work in a short action
The 6.5 Rem Mag is no ballistic clone of the 25-06, it's speed and trajectory rival the 257 WBY and 270 WSM.Thanks guys. Yeah I'm not looking for something that'll need re-barreling in a few years. What I'm doing is getting rid of a few rifles and plan on having just 3 that I can use for anything I hunt and just to shoot. I've already sold one, and my buddy is making payments on my BAR 7-08. In the end the 3 will be m70 extreme weather in 7-08, m70 supergrade in 300 WM, and for the third a featherweight m70 in 270 would make sense but I want a caliber that not everyone shoots. Hence the reason I'm looking at the 25-06 and 264, and whatever other suggestions I get. I also plan on having a custom stock made for the FW but that's a whole different convo.
Kachok
Member
I have been keeping an eye out for a new ultra high speed rifle since my buddie bought my 270 WSM from me. The 25-06 keeps dragging me in, factory ammo does not intrest me, but some of the handloads people have worked up for the 25-06 are shocking, especaly with the 100gr bullets. I have seen production rifles pushing in excess of 3,500fps and long barrel custom guns in excess of 3,600fps, that is burning up the atmosphere fast for a deer bullet, heck that is pretty fast for a varmint bullet. Only problem with pushing a bullet that fast is you need something really tough like a Barnes TSX or Nosler Partition to keep it from blowing up on close range impact. I have found one issue in the rifles though, many manufactures including my two favorite (Savage and Tikka) put 22" barrels on the 25-06, I think it is common sence to put at leased a 24" tube on something that fast and that overbore. Winchester, Browning, and Remington use 24" barrels, but Winchesters and Brownings can be kinna pricy, and I won't trust Remington again until they fire their entire QC staff, the last two I tried were complete garbage, I would expect that from their 770s or other junk, but they were both 700s the flagship of the brand.
lefteyedom
Member
Dubya450, if you want something like a 25-06 but a little bigger look at the 6.5-06 A.I. It is much better cartridge than the 264 WinMag. The case capacity is a better balance for the bore. ...
Get a Savage 110 in 25-06 and order a 6.5-06 A.I. Barrel swap barrels when you want to.
I have three goto hunting rifles.
338 WinMag, savage 116 left hand stainless 24"barrel for critters bigger than deer
7-08 Savage 10' left hand, blue 20"barrel... Coyotes to Elk.
25-06 721 Remington left hand (Guise custom) blued 24" prairie dogs to Elk...
There is a fair amount of overlap in the middle. I always take two gun hunting the 25-06 and ether the 338 or the 7-08 depending one what I have a Tag for.
Get a Savage 110 in 25-06 and order a 6.5-06 A.I. Barrel swap barrels when you want to.
I have three goto hunting rifles.
338 WinMag, savage 116 left hand stainless 24"barrel for critters bigger than deer
7-08 Savage 10' left hand, blue 20"barrel... Coyotes to Elk.
25-06 721 Remington left hand (Guise custom) blued 24" prairie dogs to Elk...
There is a fair amount of overlap in the middle. I always take two gun hunting the 25-06 and ether the 338 or the 7-08 depending one what I have a Tag for.
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Lloyd Smale
Member
Im a big fan of the 264 mag. Ive killed many deer with it. As to being a barrel burner sure its life isnt what a 308 would be but its not a bit worse then some other rounds like the 257wby, 7rem and wby, 300 win and wby. I chuckle when i here people complain about barrel life in a 264. they will have you think that a 7 remington mag is somehow majicaly differnt. There the same case with the same powder capasity and a bullet thats about .015 differnt. because of its bigger bore loading data for the 7 mag will usually add a grain or two of powder if your comaparing 140 grain loads. Now explain to me how the 7mag can have a decent barrel life and a 264 not. Lots of these bs ideas came from back when there wasnt suitably slow burning powders for these guns. Lots were loaded with heavy charges of faster burning ball powders and thats a recipe for barrel burning in any gun.
Slow down and dont overheat your barrel when your at the range and it will prevent 80 percent of barrel errosion. Keep in mind too that very few of these mag rifles are used to plink at the range. Most owners work up some loads when they first get it and they its mostly a hunting gun and used like that any of them will last two lifetimes. There not varmit rifles meant to shoot 500 rounds in a day. I gurantee you that even if you use a 2506 like that your going to need a new barrel at the end of the season. Keep in mind too that back in the day when the 2506 was introduced it too had the same bs reputation for burning barrels.
Slow down and dont overheat your barrel when your at the range and it will prevent 80 percent of barrel errosion. Keep in mind too that very few of these mag rifles are used to plink at the range. Most owners work up some loads when they first get it and they its mostly a hunting gun and used like that any of them will last two lifetimes. There not varmit rifles meant to shoot 500 rounds in a day. I gurantee you that even if you use a 2506 like that your going to need a new barrel at the end of the season. Keep in mind too that back in the day when the 2506 was introduced it too had the same bs reputation for burning barrels.
Kachok
Member
I never said the 7mm RM had a good barrel life either, about 1500rd tops if you like performance, say 50% better then the 264. Never shot out a barrel on my WSM but there does seem to be some truth to the sharp shoulder keeping the turbulant flow in the neck of the brass rather then in the throat of the barrel. For the ocassional shooter/hunter the 264s barrel will last several years, but for those of us that like to shoot often, and stay all day that could be a major problem. Now in all fairness, the cost to re-barrel is not all that high if you can do it yourself. The thing that burns out 264s (and other magnums) really quickly is shooting them hot, don't ever shoot more then a three shot string without letting them cool in between. In my experence a quick 5 shot string in an overbore magnum will make the barrel almost hot enough to brand cattle, this extra heat makes the grooves weaker to the errosion of gunpowder. This is why some people can shoot their overbore magum year after year with no issue and others have to re-barrel every other season.
41 Mag
Member
I have been with the 25-06 since back in the late 80's. I got one specifically to have a flat shooting round that I could also utilize the huge pile of 30-06 cases I had accumulated from many range range visits. What I found was almost love at first fire.
I initially loaded it with the 100gr bullets in various brands, and with plenty of range time I had little trouble finding extremely accurate loads. Probably my best find was a load which shot the Nosler BT, and Partition, as well as the Barnes X, all within a group of less than 2" at 200yds. This was nice as I found the BT simply wasn't cut out for feral hogs where the Partition and X made for much better medicine.
This went along for about the first three years I owned the rifle, during which time I also played with several 117 and 120gr loads. Both of these weights were very accurate from my Rem 700, but there was just something that I didn't like about it. With the 100gr bullets I could easily hit 3350 within the book load data, but for whatever reason the others would start flattening out primers around the 3000fps range, and rarely break it without spread groups or high pressure.
When I finally found some 115gr Partitions, this all changed. I chose a load form the Hornady manual I was using for the 117's and worked it all the way up to the book max and actually hit the velocity they did with my loads and no issues what so ever with pressure. Running the 115's at 3150fps, the rifle thrived on them and accuracy was right back to the 1/2" or so at 200yds that the 100's had been doing. This to me was the best of both worlds. I had velocity, with a bit more weight. I used this load exclusively for the rest of the time I kept the rifle.
The year the 110gr Accubond came out, I had gotten my parts together for a custom 25-06 AI, and when I got it from the smith I stripped the older Rem 700 down and cleaned her all up and presented it to my daughter who had wanted it for years. I took the one box of Accubods with me to a friends where I simply swapped out the bullets from the 115gr load to the 110's. THe first thee shots at 200yds, we actually had to ride out to the target to see they all hit the paper. The group was three .257 holes in a clover. So I loaded up 20 of them, along with 20 of the standard 115gr loads and gave them all to my daughter to decide which she wanted to shoot.
It only took about three days before she said she would stick with the Accubonds after dropping her first buck with them at just past 250yds.
This was quickly followed up by a couple of hogs and a coyote while out checking a gut pile with the spot light. The yotes eyes were just glowing balls in the scope from what she said, so she put the X between them and touched the round off the first round just past 100yds.
The second night checking the gut pile, is when she got the hogs. The first one bit the dust at a little over 150yds and the second one faulted when it stopped at just past 200, where she repeated the process, while her fiance held the light.
Since '05, when I presented that rifle to her, she has taken several more nice bucks, mostly at 200+ yards due to the way our farm is laid out. The oldest grandson also got into the game using the same rifle, year before last on his 9th birthday. The daughter took this one two days prior,
and he then followed up with this one,
The cool thing about it was, the daughter took her first buck with the same rifle when she was 9 as well.
As for how the old shot out barrel is holding up after close to 25yrs of top end loads, well I shot these two with it on a very windy day at 250yds while checking the zero before last hunting season. The oldest grandson and I had been shooting up some older loads and I had just cleaned the barrel. I fired the one fouling round, (low), and then the following two.
While this would mean little to most who post groups, this is such a regularity from this rifle, that it is all I need to show me things are on par for it. It is actually sighted in at 200yds and with the wind gusting that day I didn't mess with the scope what so ever. It has shot like this with most loads I have worked up for it, since back when I first put it on paper, and if it doesn't, it isn't the rifle or the load.
To be totally honest, if you go with the 25-06, I would simply go with the 115gr Partition and be done with it. I have personally found that while the 110 Accubond is great for deer and smaller hogs, the bigger ones can easily soak up a good hit and with the hide and fat they leave little to no trial when they hit the brush. The 115's, I found like the 100grs above in BT, X or Partition, always did the job no matter what. I have used for the most part the Partition, on plenty of whitetail deer out to just over 400yds and a 250# mule deer at 40, with equal results, usually dropped in their tracks or only made it 20-30yds before doing so. A couple of my favorite shots were a skunk at 283yds, and a yote at just past 350. The skunk was shot just behind it's bobbing head with a 115gr Barnes X, in about 8" grass after my good friend said there was no way I could do it, and the yote was looking around a bunch of tall Johnson grass where all I could see was half of his head. I hit him just under his left eye with the 115gr Partition, while aiming right between them from a slightly rocking tri-pod stand.
Good luck with your purchase what ever you go with. If it's the 25, and your working up loads there isn't much better stuffing for it that RL-22 for the 110gr and up bullets. For anything less I would look hard at IMR-4831. These two will or should give you the best velocities within the load data that you will get. As for the best barrel length, well the one mentioned above is the stock Remington 24", and it has been well used, and is holding up fine. While the shorter will give decent velocities the 24 isn't overly cumbersome. The 22" will give you decent velocity, but you will also get plenty of muzzle blast as well. Not to say the 24 doesn't provide that but the extra 2" seems to help make it not so obtrusive.
I initially loaded it with the 100gr bullets in various brands, and with plenty of range time I had little trouble finding extremely accurate loads. Probably my best find was a load which shot the Nosler BT, and Partition, as well as the Barnes X, all within a group of less than 2" at 200yds. This was nice as I found the BT simply wasn't cut out for feral hogs where the Partition and X made for much better medicine.
This went along for about the first three years I owned the rifle, during which time I also played with several 117 and 120gr loads. Both of these weights were very accurate from my Rem 700, but there was just something that I didn't like about it. With the 100gr bullets I could easily hit 3350 within the book load data, but for whatever reason the others would start flattening out primers around the 3000fps range, and rarely break it without spread groups or high pressure.
When I finally found some 115gr Partitions, this all changed. I chose a load form the Hornady manual I was using for the 117's and worked it all the way up to the book max and actually hit the velocity they did with my loads and no issues what so ever with pressure. Running the 115's at 3150fps, the rifle thrived on them and accuracy was right back to the 1/2" or so at 200yds that the 100's had been doing. This to me was the best of both worlds. I had velocity, with a bit more weight. I used this load exclusively for the rest of the time I kept the rifle.
The year the 110gr Accubond came out, I had gotten my parts together for a custom 25-06 AI, and when I got it from the smith I stripped the older Rem 700 down and cleaned her all up and presented it to my daughter who had wanted it for years. I took the one box of Accubods with me to a friends where I simply swapped out the bullets from the 115gr load to the 110's. THe first thee shots at 200yds, we actually had to ride out to the target to see they all hit the paper. The group was three .257 holes in a clover. So I loaded up 20 of them, along with 20 of the standard 115gr loads and gave them all to my daughter to decide which she wanted to shoot.
It only took about three days before she said she would stick with the Accubonds after dropping her first buck with them at just past 250yds.
This was quickly followed up by a couple of hogs and a coyote while out checking a gut pile with the spot light. The yotes eyes were just glowing balls in the scope from what she said, so she put the X between them and touched the round off the first round just past 100yds.
The second night checking the gut pile, is when she got the hogs. The first one bit the dust at a little over 150yds and the second one faulted when it stopped at just past 200, where she repeated the process, while her fiance held the light.
Since '05, when I presented that rifle to her, she has taken several more nice bucks, mostly at 200+ yards due to the way our farm is laid out. The oldest grandson also got into the game using the same rifle, year before last on his 9th birthday. The daughter took this one two days prior,
and he then followed up with this one,
The cool thing about it was, the daughter took her first buck with the same rifle when she was 9 as well.
As for how the old shot out barrel is holding up after close to 25yrs of top end loads, well I shot these two with it on a very windy day at 250yds while checking the zero before last hunting season. The oldest grandson and I had been shooting up some older loads and I had just cleaned the barrel. I fired the one fouling round, (low), and then the following two.
While this would mean little to most who post groups, this is such a regularity from this rifle, that it is all I need to show me things are on par for it. It is actually sighted in at 200yds and with the wind gusting that day I didn't mess with the scope what so ever. It has shot like this with most loads I have worked up for it, since back when I first put it on paper, and if it doesn't, it isn't the rifle or the load.
To be totally honest, if you go with the 25-06, I would simply go with the 115gr Partition and be done with it. I have personally found that while the 110 Accubond is great for deer and smaller hogs, the bigger ones can easily soak up a good hit and with the hide and fat they leave little to no trial when they hit the brush. The 115's, I found like the 100grs above in BT, X or Partition, always did the job no matter what. I have used for the most part the Partition, on plenty of whitetail deer out to just over 400yds and a 250# mule deer at 40, with equal results, usually dropped in their tracks or only made it 20-30yds before doing so. A couple of my favorite shots were a skunk at 283yds, and a yote at just past 350. The skunk was shot just behind it's bobbing head with a 115gr Barnes X, in about 8" grass after my good friend said there was no way I could do it, and the yote was looking around a bunch of tall Johnson grass where all I could see was half of his head. I hit him just under his left eye with the 115gr Partition, while aiming right between them from a slightly rocking tri-pod stand.
Good luck with your purchase what ever you go with. If it's the 25, and your working up loads there isn't much better stuffing for it that RL-22 for the 110gr and up bullets. For anything less I would look hard at IMR-4831. These two will or should give you the best velocities within the load data that you will get. As for the best barrel length, well the one mentioned above is the stock Remington 24", and it has been well used, and is holding up fine. While the shorter will give decent velocities the 24 isn't overly cumbersome. The 22" will give you decent velocity, but you will also get plenty of muzzle blast as well. Not to say the 24 doesn't provide that but the extra 2" seems to help make it not so obtrusive.
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SwampWolf
Member
I don't think it makes a huge bit of difference, practically speaking, but I'd vote for a 24" barrel for the 25-06 as being a good compromise (between the 22" and 26" lengths)-a little more velocity (to take more advantage of this round's "horsepower" potential) and a little less muzzle blast than the 22" length and yet still handles a little better than one with a 26" barrel.
I like the 22" long barrel on my Roberts but wish I had a 26" long barrel on my .257 Weatherby Magnum (as opposed to the 24" long one it came with), again, to better exploit the potential of this cartridge. But, as I said, for most hunting situations, it probably won't make much difference either way.
I love the .257 vs .264 debate. I find it so hard to believe .07 really makes that big of a difference. Another one of those personal preferences things I guess. I understand a 6.5 will handle a heavier bullet, but in the stated question of a deer rifle either is equally successful at putting meat on the table
I'm sure someday in the next few years ill end up with a m70 supergrade in 264 wm but for now I'm going to pick up a Sako 85 classic in 25-06 and use that along with my Winchester model 70 extreme weather in 338 wm. With them two ill be ready to hunt just about anything that i get the chance to.
Peter M. Eick
Member
Ideal? I would go for a 26". My 24" Ruger #1 is just short and does not feel as good as my 26" Sendero.
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