3-gun/multigun stage design

[taliv]

I'm just saying that all other things being equal, it took about 6 months at our local group before there was a direct correlation between finish place, and check book size. And that is never good for continued growth of any sport.

what should be done and not done in stage design to reduce/eliminate advantages of expensive or game-only equipment? or is that something to be desired? is it feasible?



(at the tactical rifle match last weekend, I did enjoy seeing someone with a 40 rnd AR mag trying to shoot through a very low barricade port. looked like he was doing yoga.)

 

[SDC]

If you REALLY want to eliminate the equipment factor, you can simply mandate the use of loaner equipment on one or more stages, and make that the primary match. Have one shotgun stage shot with a Mossberg shotgun (to eliminate cries of "favouritism" from lefties), one pistol stage shot with a stock Glock, DA revolver, or bone-stock 1911, and one rifle stage shot with something like a Mini-14, 1903, or lever-action, and go from there. You may be able to find loaner examples of all of these without too much trouble, and that way, you'll know who's best with stock or unfamiliar equipment, and who needs their tricked-out stuff to perform best. The modern score-keeping programs can easily keep track of which stages are part of the "stock" match, and which are part of the overall match.

 

[taliv]

the rules actually prevent that, i think. they say you can have stage equipment, but can't require more than 3 targets be shot with it.

 

[green country shooter]

Saying equipment determines the winner doesn't match my experience in any shooting sport, let alone 3 gun.

However, since you asked, here's some ways to even things out.

You can limit rounds in the magazine or require magazine changes, depending on the rules for the type of 3 gun.

You can keep the shotgun stages to a reasonable number of rounds.

You can limit rifle shooting to either close round work or long distance at an individual match, but not both. Having short and long range shots in the same match favors the high dollar variable scopes.

Or you could just have divisions with different equipment rules.

I also have to say that it seems like at the national level the same guys win as in pistol, and it's because they practice.

And if I remember correctly, Taran Butler got moved from Tactical to Open in a national match due to some minor discrepancy and actually won the Open category with Tactical equipment.

 

[VegasOPM]

The only thing that I can think of is to limit the number of rounds per stage- which is kind of boring. The truth is that the big buck outfits are set up to put rounds on target more quickly and accurately than more basic rigs- which is hard to work around.

The thing that seems to even the playing field in our club is to add "no shoots" that require actual aiming. The gamers tend to incur lots of penalties.

 

[skinewmexico]

I think having a stage with no shotgun reloads would equalize things nicely.

 

[Hoser]

There is no way to make everyone happy so you might as well make it fair.

I train with my guns and my equipment. Dont make me pick up some strange gun.

What if Joe Blow owns a Mossberg pump and is the Jedi Master of pump-guns? That means he beat me because I was thrown a curve ball having never shot a pump gun before.

If you want to win more than me, practice more with your stuff. Dont make this stuff a game of chance.

You dont see bullseye shooters pissed off because a Hammerelli 208 stomped on their Ruger Mark II. They just suck it up and train harder.

 

[mscott]

I have a hard time believing a checkbook wins a match. How about an example of how a JP rifle can beat a DPMS? Is a Benny Hill Benelli M2 really going to make a big enough difference to leave everyone in the dust? The better shooter is going to win. Pick a set of rules and stick to them. Puting extra low ports on a course just because the guy that wins every month is 6'4" tall is a crappy way to run a club. I see no problem with mag restrictions, like 30 rounds for Tactical and Limited, but don't make the match boring either. Not reloading a shotgun just doesn't make sense. You should have to reload all of your guns on the clock. How else are you going to get better?

 

[mscott]

....

 

[Justin]

A big checkbook buys you ammo, and in some cases practice time. I seriously doubt I could win a match with Matt Burkett's setup without putting the requisite time in at the range.

I don't think stages should be deliberately designed to "level the playing field" between those who buy pricey gear and those who don't. That's what divisions such as Tactical Scope/Iron Sight/He Man/Open are supposed to do.

 

[3GUNNR]

Check out how the big matchs are run and scored and pick one. Don't reinvent the wheel there are already scoring systems and equipment divisions in place.
Remember a good shooter who practices will win even with substandard equipment.

As with not having any shotgun reloads.....shotgun shooting in the 3 gun game is all about the reloads.
You can practice without expending ammo. Use dummie rounds.