.30-06 Loads With Ball Powder

[Havok7416]

So I am taking apart some loads for a friend who supposedly had some reloads with bad powder. Aside from the fact that most of the rounds are NOT reloads and have original primer and bullet seals intact, I have a problem. Specifically, one of the cartridges (LC 65) has ball powder inside. Were .30-06 military cartridges ever loaded with any kind of ball powder?

I can't remember what weight the bullet is as it's in a bin full of take-downs.

ETA: There appear to be a few flakes of 4895 or similar stick powder mixed in which seems odd to me.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, 30-06 AP & Tracer was loaded with WC 852, which is ball powder.

It wasn't bright blue like your photo though!!

rc

 

[1KPerDay]

But it was blurry...

 

[CLP]

Yes, 30-06 AP & Tracer was loaded with WC 852, which is ball powder.

It wasn't bright blue like your photo though!!

rc

I think that might be photographic artifact and not actually blue. OP, what was the color?

On the topic of ball powders and .30-06, is there any current load data of such a combination?

 

[cag215]

30-06 & Ball Powder - Hodgdon Load data.....
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H335 .308" 3.250" 47.0 2785 42,500 CUP 51.5 2982 49,200 CUP

 

[Trent]

Wow, blue powder!

That's pretty.

If you could get a hold of some pink powder I could get my girls in to reloading.

Anodized pink shell casings would be a bonus.

 

[CLP]

30-06 & Ball Powder - Hodgdon Load data.....
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H335 .308" 3.250" 47.0 2785 42,500 CUP 51.5 2982 49,200 CUP

Is the burn rate of that powder acceptable for Garands? I've only used IMR 4895 for mine, and I use a Chargemaster vs. the Dillon powder meter because of the crunchiness. That looks like it'd be great for me if it was suited for Garands.

 

[rcmodel]

From Hornady #6 load manual M1 Garand data.

150-155 grain bullet:
H-335
AA-2495
AA-2520
N-135
RL-12
Varget
H-4895

168 grain bullet:
AA 2495
N-135
H-4895
Win-0748
Varget
IMR-4895
IMR-4064
N-140
RL-15
N-150
BL-C(2)

178 grain bullet:
N-135
Varget
H-4895
IMR-4895
Win-748
N-140
IMR-4064
N-150
BL-C(2)
RL-15

rc

 

[NCsmitty]

CLP, If you are looking for a ball powder equivalent for your IMR4895, Accurate 2520 is a near exact replacement. Just follow the Accurate load data for it.

Here's a link to some info and data.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/products/rifle/?view=15&product=2520


NCSmitty

 

[kgpcr]

I have loaded a lot of 06 with H414. It shot very well for me.

 

[CLP]

This thread made my day! Thanks, when powders start to become available I'll work up a load for my Garand.

 

[Havok7416]

OP here, the powder in the picture is actually black. I took the picture with my phone which decided to color things up. For those of you saying you load ball powder, I am aware of powders for modern actions but the powder shown came out of a LAKE CITY 65 case and all indications are that it was an original load developed for the M1903, M1 Garand, M1941 Johnson, M1919 or BAR. There is still a red seal around the primer and the bullets are definitely sealed also. I pulled down a total of two .30-06 bullets so far loaded with the powder pictured.

It's hard to see but there are definitely flakes of what appears to be IMR 4895 in both. This would seem to make it some kind of factory blended powder. The ratio of ball to stick powder in the mixture seems very evenly balanced between both charges (there is far more ball powder though).

RC, the bullet was definitely not an AP or tracer. These are standard 150, 168 and 173 grain FMJ bullets.

 

[Havok7416]

My luck with this stuff just won't hold. I went to deprime one of the vintage rounds and I got a primer detonation in the press. The primer was green around the edges and no extra force was put on the primer. It blew the primer straight out of the case and deformed the crap out of it. Aside from scaring me to death there was no damage to anything. The case is stamped TW 53.

 

[1KPerDay]

Wow.

Those old ring-crimped M2 USGI loads' primers are REALLY in there good and tight, but the fact that one went off is scary. You deprimed nice and slow?


BTW why were you depriming? That ammo is not corrosive and the primers are (obviously) still good...

 

[Havok7416]

I am depriming for two reasons. 1) the friend who gave me these reported that he loads that did not fire so I decided to rebuild all of them from the ground up just to be safe (that's working out well so far!). 2) I was under the impression that these loads ARE corrosive and wanted to remove the corrosive components.

Yes, I have been depriming slowly. This was the first case I did so far that had a greenish primer. There are at least five more with the same headstamp and primer color that I will touch off empty in my gun to avoid any further surprises.

 

[Centurian22]

Wow, quite the undertaking. Sounds like a much safer revised method. I never thought about the added 'risk' of depriming crimped cases (as I've never needed to). Don't forget to clean the gun after setting them off, especially suspecting corrosives.

NCsmitty: I use imr4895 in my .308, always looking to learn about alternatives though especially in these times of shortage. Do you have any data or knowledge of the temperature sensitivity of A2520? I have heard ball powders are/can be more sensitive. Though I also recently heard that IMR4895 may be temp sensitive as well even though I was under the impression it wasn't. Lesson learned in not believing everything you read on the interwebs. Just a noobie reloader trying to learn what I can. Sorry for the thread hijack.

 

[Havok7416]

Centurian, no worries here. Anytime corrosive ammo is suspected in my milsurps I clean them up immediately. Now I just need to get the remaining 100 or so rounds taken down and deprimed.

 

[1KPerDay]

I was under the impression that these loads ARE corrosive and wanted to remove the corrosive components.

Have a look here and see what you think. Short answer is if it's USGI, made after 1952, it's not corrosive with very few exceptions.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=392180&highlight=corrosive


excerpt:

Twin Cities Arsenal (TW) went non-corrosive starting with lot #19362 in Dec 1950 for ball, and lot #19776 Feb 1952 for AP.

WCC 54 is Western (Winchester) and absolutely non-corrosive.

And finally LC, Lake City. LC 52 is the first year of totally safe LC according to a chart I printed out a while back from the CMP forum.

According to the Garand guys, Lot Number: 13700 Date: June 1951 was the first non-corrosive to come out of LC.

Obviously if you have some WWII stuff (I have some AP from that era) it's corrosive.

 

[Havok7416]

I have a mixture of WWII and post-WWII. The earliest headstamps I have seen in this pile are a DEN (Denver Arsenal?) and a LC, both 43. Thank you for the valuable information!

I guess the primer that exploded was a Twin Cities. Still not sure why it did that but it's worth noting.

 

[chris in va]

After buying my CMP Garand three years ago, I got curious and dismantled an HXP 70's vintage case. To my surprise, the powder was actually spherical, like little ball bearings.