30-06 Utility Rifle

[P.B.Walsh]

Hello to all, after much research and reading, mainly from here, and most importantly, my own experiences, I have come to the conclusion that I want just one good, solid, bolt-action rifle that follows the scout rifle philosophy. That said, I am not trying to duplicate Cooper's ideas, only learn from them and tweak them to suit my own personal tastes.

I do wish for this to be my "one rifle" to cover >95% of my usage. It does not need to excel in any specific category, but must be average at all tasks. I do not want an apocalypse rifle, so let us not go down that road. I am looking intently for a utility rifle.

My current budget is about $2,500, but more realistically at $2,000. It will after all, be a custom build.

Now with the introduction out of the way, I must layout my plans for the rifle starting with the critical components:

CRF action, strong enough for the heaviest of 30-06 loads
30-06 chambering
22" light/medium palma barrel contour.
Front/rear receiver sight
<8.5 pounds unloaded, balance point at the magazine well
5 round magazine capacity
Steel/titanium BDL style floorplate
3-4 pound trigger with 1/16"-1/32" creep

These features are ones that I feel like I must have in order to achieve the goal for this rifle.

This is the list for the negotiable or non-critical components:

Stripper clip guide cutout
Mannlicher stock
Laminated stock
3 position safety
Forward receiver bridge extended scope base
Flash hider
Bayonet capable
Stainless steel barreled action
Leupold 2.5x20 FX-II Ultralight Riflescope with qd rings

Now the extended scope base I figured that I could find a one piece scope base, cut the back off, and screw it down to only the front bridge, thereby allowing the constant use of a receiver sight, like the Williams WRGS. Is this a good idea, or am I blowing smoke?

And for the bayonet, well, I am just enamored with them and would love to be able to affix one if at all possible, but obviously not important.

Now the actions that I am considering, in order of preference, with estimated finished prices are as follows:

Winchester 70 - $2250
MRC 1999 Long Action -$2250
Remington/Smith-Corona 1903A3 - $1850
Mauser 98 - $1900

My question of the actions are about strength and stripper clip guides. Obviously, their all very strong actions, but does one out perform the other, when using a hot 30-06, like a 220 grain pushed at peak velocities? And what of the stripper clip guides, is there enough meat on the receiver of the Winchester 70 (FNH made receivers) to accommodate one while also allowing the use of a receiver sight such as the Williams?

Any other input would be much appreciated, this will be a long time coming, so I have a fair bit of time, like a year, before I get this project started. Please give me your opinions, alterations, hate mail, etc., just please nothing of "oh you should just buy "X" brand name rifle", been there, tried it, and now I am here. The closest rifle on the market that even comes close is a CZ550FS in 30-06. Actually, if you look at that, it is basically what I am going for.

I do apologize for being long winded, but I would love ya'll's thoughts on the matter, and I thank all of you for the splendid little community here.

Thank you and God bless,
P.B.Walsh

 

[Art Eatman]

A 98 Mauser action will work just fine, and it already does the stripper-clip thing.

Laminated stocks are heavy. I prefer a free-floated barrel, so I vote No on a Mannlicher stock.

Granted that I'm a long-barrel freak, but the ballistics of the '06 are better at 24" to 26".

 

[oldpapps]

P.B.,

You obviously have a good handle on what you want. If this is what you desire, go for it.

A few quick observations from me. You titled this as "Utility Rifle". To me beautiful wood is beautiful, wouldn't a composite be a tad more on the 'utility' side? I am a great admirer of the 30.06 Springfield round.... but, being a cheap skate, the greater availability of .308/7.62 brass would be a big draw for me. As you list Alabama as your home, I can't see anything that a 30.06 would take that a .308/7.62 wouldn't also take. If you are planning on extended periods in grizzly bear country, maybe or move up to a .338 or bigger. If you want a bayonet, go for it, pike warfare in the 21st century. And finally for 'stripper clips', they are neat, aren't they. Utility.. detachable magazine. The down sides to a detachable mag are, 1 - can stick out the bottom of the action. 2 - if state law prohibits more than X number of rounds (only hunt with a mag that meets that requirement). This is countered with effectively instant loading/unloading and the ability to switch from 220 grain hammers to 130 grain zingers in a couple of seconds (I know the sights/scope would need to be compensated for with the variables.).

It is not my intention to disagree with what you want and like, but to offer other views.
Oh, I like a fully verbalized description. If you want snibits of information, use 'twitter'.

Good luck with you search.

 

[slicksleeve]

If you go with the Mauser 98 action, you might have to get an aftermarket extended magazine well, or extend one your own self. My Mauser 98 in 30-06 won't accomodate ammo loaded with 165 grain balistic tip bullets. They're too long, and I would have to single load them. I shoot 150 grain balistic tips because of this, and they are sub-moa. I know it would hold a 165 grain jacketed soft point because they are shorter, but I don't know if it would accomodate 220 grain ones.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

This is exactly the feedback that I was looking for, and for the most part, I agree with all the thoughts. I am picking wood/laminate because I the feel of it, it just feels better and more natural than fiberglass. I do enjoy a good glass stock though and praise their advantages, but they just have a cold, unwelcoming feeling to them.

As for the long barrels, this is Alabama, and I do not need anything longer, 22" is pushing it. My reason for the 30-06 is pure romanticism, I have .308 rifles, one R700 and a FNH Winchester 70, but the 06 is just special to me.

As for accuracy, if it can hold moa out to 300 yards, then I will be estatic, notice I said the rifle, not me, I am not there yet. This is not a uber long range rifle, just sub-500 (at most).

I hope to see more discussion, I enjoy the back and forth thoughts.

Thanks,
P.B.Walsh

 

[dmazur]

I had a rifle built using a MRC 1999 stainless action and an Accurate Innovations laminated stock.

I specified a 28" barrel with not much taper, so this is a little heavier than what you want to do.

It happens to be in .30-06, too.

However, I did not follow the scout concept. This was intended to be more of a target rifle, with a Leupold 6.5-20x50 scope mounted in rings in the conventional position above the receiver bridge. Mounts for the Winchester M70 fit the MRC 1999 action.

The trigger that comes with the MRC 1999 action is very good. I was able to adjust it to 2.5 lbs and it has no noticeable creep. At 2.5 lbs it just releases. It can be easily adjusted to be a little heavier. However, if you want a better trigger, the MRC 1999 is designed to accept aftermarket triggers designed for the Winchester M70.

As I planned to shoot from a rest, I specified a flat forend for the stock, which AI describes as "Varminter". I don't know if they would make a Mannlicher stock to order, but it wouldn't hurt to ask. At least they know how to fit the stock to the 1999 action.

As to the strength of the action, I believe the cartridge is only designed to take so much pressure before it isn't going to handle any more. In other words, published loads for 220gr aren't any harder on the action than those for 150gr. They just aren't going to have the same MV.

Good luck.

 

[MattShlock]

Forget it -- if you can use .30-06 you can almost certainly go .308. Anyway, try a BLR with their Scout Scope mount.

 

[jmr40]

True CRF and 5 round mag capacity pretty much limits you to a Winchester action. Not a bad thing, that would be my 1st choice anyway.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

dmazur, how is the customer support of MRC? I have heard that they can be pretty shady with their business practices. Did you have to bed the stock, I know they have aluminum bedding blocks in them from the factory.

Sorry, never going to buy a BLR, and I am dead set of a 30-06.

jmr, or anyone, can the MRC 1999 or Win. 70 be milled for a stripper clip?

Keep it up ya'll, very helpful indeed!

 

[dmazur]

I bought a barreled action from them before they combined Montana Rifle Company and Montana Rifleman, IIRC. MRC made the actions and Montana Rifleman made the barrels.

To avoid shipping things around to various FFL's, I arranged with MRC to ship the completed barreled action to Accurate Innovations, which would then ship the completed firearm to my FFL.

This made it very likely that they would relieve the forearm the correct amount to float the barrel. Their stock includes an aluminum bedding block, so no epoxy bedding was involved.

Just a suggestion, but the CZ 550 FS is available in a Mannlicher stock (20.5" barrel) and it has a lot of the features you are looking for. You could have a custom "scout mount" rail made, burying the factory rear sight and possibly get a NECG peep sight which would mount to CZ's 19mm dovetail.

The rifle would be the inexpensive part of this, at around $1000. The custom mounts and machining to the peep sight would make up the other $1500.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

The CZ is HEAVILY in the run for this, they handle quite beautifully and point very naturally. I feel like I "need" a 22" barrel.... if only I could live with a 20". They are still in consideration though, that and I am wary of the thin barrel profile overheating in quick five shot strings. How much different is the barrel than say, a lightweight palma contour?

 

[dmazur]

I don't have technical specs on the CZ 550 FS, so I can't comment on the barrel taper. I just noted that they offered a Mannlicher stocked .30-06, with a 3-position safety. Apparently not all the CZ rifles have this safety, just a couple of models.

I understand it is possible to free-float a Mannlicher stocked barrel, but it isn't easy. The challenge, of course, is the muzzle cap, which has to surround the barrel without touching the front sight. Or use an O-ring.

See this - Glass bedding full length stocks

I have very limited experience in this, as bedding Ruger No. 1's is a different bag of cats than Mannlicher stocks. But the goal is to reduce stringing, and Mannlicher stocks (from reading on this) have a reputation for stringing.

I learned from having Ruger No. 1's rebarreled and restocked that custom scope mounts can cost a small fortune.

In the rebarrels, I almost went with front sights, on a ramp height to match NECG peep sights mounted in the rearmost Ruger "notch" in their quarter rib. I decided scope reliability had advanced to the point where I didn't need backup iron sights, so I deleted the front sights from the work order.

However, you can get "closer" to the scout concept with a Weaver rail mounted to the M70 screw holes, on either the MRC 1999 or M70 actions. With decent quick-detach rings, you can swap in either the NECG peep or the scope as conditions dictate. True, it is something to lose, but it could be carried in a leather pocket on the sling...

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Well the scope is kinda a pipe dream, and obviously at the bottom of even the non-critical list. The stock will even be made for using iron sights, like the stock on the CZ. I have wondered if bedding the entire barrel channel will aid in accuracy, the link helped clear some of that up, thanks.

To bad nobody makes an aluminum Model 70 manlicher stock for a 22" barrel, it sure would alleviate accuracy bugs. Then again, accuuracy is not the total focus of this build.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

All my rifles are either CZ's or Brno's and can vouch not only for their reliability but also accuracy.

A couple of thoughts. It is widely considered that the 30-06 is at the limit of most shooters recoil tolerance, if you are comfortable with the 30-06 then ignore the comment.

The Mannlicher stock is pretty but has some unwanted (for me that is) side effects. The first is that it alters the recoil and on 30-06 (I have a CZ550), it tends to kick up hard and left for a RH shooter, that with not insignificant recoil can get one into a flinch, it did me. The second thing is that if you have a scope fitted you will not get correct cheek weld which will affect accuracy, you can see how I needed to modify the comb for use with a scope.

This on my CZ550 6.5x55mm Swede. The top picture is actually the height dialed in for shooting.





The biggest mistake I made was by not going for the FS rather than the normal. But will correct this with a 9.3mm FS . We live and learn, recently was hunting in heavy bushveldt (brush) and the shorter barrel on the FS with no scope would have been a dream, no shots were further than 75 yards.

I would encourage you to consider the .308 or the 6.5mm if you are a deer hunter. Both versions in the CZ550 FS range are stunners and if used with irons the comb height on the stock is perfect. If you are a handloader then definitely the 6.5mm, it will take Kudu here with 130gr. Accubonds.

Good luck.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Yea, the 6.5 Sweed is an amazing cartridge, and probably my favorite European one to boot, but I'm solid with the 06, the recoil does not bother my from a 1903 at all, even if it is a bit heavier.

Glad to know that you've have good experience with CZ rifles.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

As much as many people hate to admit it...the 30-06 is the best for a rifle of this type (general purpose, if its alive I can kill it type of thing)...I built a similar setup, but had different ideas than the OP in some areas.

9 lbs. loaded and ready to hunt...CRF Model 70...24" barrel...no iron sights...aluminum floorplate...excellent trigger (MOA)...match grade accuracy...30-06!

Cost to get this together...$1,950...and thats doing all the stock fitting and bedding myself.

On thing that may be of interest...I could have saved 1/2 pound with a "smaller" scope...a fixed 4x or so would have made this rifle 8.5 lbs. loaded and all...I required a scope that could be dialed if need be, others may not.

 

[M1GarandDeerHunter]

Wow, nifty idea. Love the 30-06 myself. My better half chose a CZ550 in 06 and it is a beautiful and super accurate rifle. LOVE the 1903 and Mauser actions. Like wood. Plastic is cold on the face up here. Always thought the full stock CZ550 beautiful. Not sure how they shoot tho. Good luck with your project. Scout rifles are an interesting breed.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Thank you, if and when this gets built, I'll post pics and do a "first look" review.

Ridgerunner, I have long envied that rifle from your past postings of it, beautiful, buisness looking firearm!

Still one question remains, does a Win. 70 or MRC 1999 have enough steel to cut out for clips? I look at my .308 Winny, but cannot tell.

Thanks ya'll!

 

[Ridgerunner665]

PB...

I remember BartB talking about the M70 and stripper clips on The Firing Line forum (sister site to this forum)...I'd say he could answer that question in short order.

IIRC, he says the M70 is easily modified to accept them...very minor job.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I found the post....here is a quote from him...he's comparing the M70 to the Rem 700 here.

Magazine charges more reliably from stripper clips, either from the clip guide milled into the receiver bridge or a screwed on clip guide. And the 70's magazine feeds rounds more reliably.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

I'll have to see if I can find his contact info. Do you know the exact name for these "chargers"?

 

[Ridgerunner665]

No...never looked into stripper clips.

He has always seemed to answer, especially threads about M70's...I'd just post a thread there asking the question.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Just created an account on TFL, hopefully he can shed more light on the subject.

 

[Hummer70]

PB,

I believe you left out a critical catagory for a one gun will have to do forever build.

User maintainability. If it goes down in the field can you get it going with only a Leatherman tool?

Bolt guns will tend to fail in a very limited area. Striker failure, extractor failure or striker spring loss of energy. If you cannot replace these in the field (which means they will be at hand when you are in the field) you are going to be carrying a club.

There is only one action that will meet the above and that is the 1903 or 1903A3 Springfield. You can make do with stamped floorplate and stamped follower just fine.

they have stripper clip reload capability and they are available by the box full on ebay.

The Palma Contour barrel is definitely a winner and I would spec one in stainless 4 groove 12 twist with 11 deg crown with a min dimension chamber that will provide you many more reloadings than factory chambers. At the bottom of the tapered down area of the barrel reduce it to .800" diameter.

A 12 twist will stabilize a 190 grain bullet to 1000 yards with no problems. 155Gr. Sierra Palma bullets should give you a nice long barrel life. Heavy bullets and slow propellant tends to work on barrels.

I would have the muzzle reduced to .752 for the last 1.5". Go to Lowes and get a pack of black chair leg protectors. Use one at a time for a muzzle cap to keep crud out of muzzle should you fall.

Mount a Weaver 92A base on the .800" section and Burris Signature Zee Rings and a Scout Scope or a NC Star 2-7X handgun scope. Instead of iron sights I would have a small red dot scope that can be switched out on the 92A base for low light conditions. Iron sights are iffy and can be a maintenance nightmare. I have about 25 sets of iron sights and have shot them for 55 years now and have won several national trophies at Camp Perry with them and I can tell you they are not for shall we say survival applications as they will not give you best target acquisition in low light.

For a stock I would go with laminated wood. Stamped 1903A3 sling swivels front and rear. Mount the rear on the side of the buttstock 3" in front of buttplate. After determining where you need front sling swivel inlett the stock on the bottom and mount the other there. In front of that mount a Uncle Mikes stud for a Harris 6-9" bipod.

For a carry only sling the M16 Silent sling is a good start. Even better is a OD Green cotton GI sling for the Garands and replace the cotton with the silent sling material. Will only last you about 50 years if you keep it out of the camp fire ! ! ! ! ! haha.

You can carry a complete spare bolt assembly in your pack headspaced for your rifle.

With a 26" barrel (the way medium contour Palma barrels come) you won't need a flash suppressor if stick propellant is used. I would stay with 26" barrel for several reasons.

1. at 4000 rounds unscrew barrel, cut off threads, rechamber with same min spec reamer, screw it back on, remount 92A base and drive on. With Palma contour you can set barrel back at least three times. At each set back recrown muzzle and set it back about 1/8" as well. 3 set backs and you will still be showing 22" barrel. Then shoot it till it drops.

2. If you use stick propellant you won't need flash suppressor and you will get a longer barrel life. If you absolutely have to have a flash suppressor turn muzzle down to 1/2X28 thread, take a M16 Birdcage suppressor, drill it out to just under thread diameter, screw it on and you can use M16 muzzle caps.

I don't see how you are gonna have over 800.00 in this rifle built to my specs including a custom dimension reamer purchase which you can chamber at least 35 barrels with. If you get LC 30.06 match brass you can load it over 100 times if you care for it properly.

3. Get a Lyman 31141 bullet mold and cast up 170 gr. cast bullets, load them with 6 gr. Bullseye, should give you about 1185 fps, they will be subsonic and very low noise signature (like a 22 LR from 22 auto rifle).

You should be able to engage targets to at least 800 yards if you do your homework.

Any questions PM me with a phone number, I have unlimited LD plan.

I used to live in Russell County over by Columbus South of Phenix City.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

Jeff Cooper had his own ideas and the platforms to get people to follow them, I think for myself and think you should go what is best in your situation. I am an old grunt,own lots firearms and just don't buy into his scout rifle idea, even though an M1A scout squad is in my near future. shoot with what makes you feel adequate.