.30-06 v .308: which has greater felt recoil

[BigFatKen]

Was this a joke?

I have seen more wasted "ink" on this thread than most others. Sometimes I think a person puts up a question like "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" I even fell for it myself with the ejecta story. If one rifle has 3% more recoil (the 30-06 in my example, but the velocities must remain the same; -06 had shorter barrel), does it really make a diffenence?

I can really tell when my semiauto 12 ga has fired its last round and it's not because the gun weighs one shell less or about 2 oz. The gas feature really does change felt recoil.

 

[AStone]

No, this was not a joke (thread)

I have seen more wasted "ink" on this thread than most others.

BFK, no I didn't start this thread as a joke. I asked my question in earnest with an intention of exploring both the practical and theortetical (ballistic) differences between the two (and other) calibers.

Please understand that I'm new to these calibers. I had a .35 cal once in lever action, but never even shot a .30-06 or .308. Other than my shotguns, that was the most powerful round I'd ever shot.

If you found this thread to be wasted energy, then that's going to have to be your issue. It's clear that you know the answer.

But again, I'll say this as I've said it before:

1) Just because the difference between guns & rnds in ounces, ft-lbs, & velocities doesn't make a difference to you doesn't mean that it won't to others. Disagree? Fine. We'll just agree to disagree.

2) One answer to the question was, "no there is no difference". Indeed, that's bascially the one that I took away from it.

For me, in the end, there were other reasons that I decided not to choose either .30-06 or .308 for my rifle, but to go with 7mm08. But that's another story.

I like details because I know - personally, professionally & intellectually (given my background in systems theory and nonlinear dynamics) - that tiny differences between systems can and DO (often, even if not always) make a huge difference in system performance.

I often run into the "how many angels on the head of a pin" as a counter-argument when reading analyses of various things. It seems that metaphor extends from a day when the world was thought - erroneously - to yield to linear analysis, where changes in input yielded proportional changes in output.

But we live in a nonlinear world, where little changes do not necessarily cause a concommitent small change in performance. I expect no difference in firearms.

Just for the record, I'm on THR to learn, not to taunt with joke questions. If I post a "joke thread" or "joke post" (as in gun humor), you'll know it is a 'joke' in no uncertain terms.

Be well,

Nem

 

[KIDGLOCK]

Learn to shoot and recoil wont be a problem. Its all in the head. If you think you dont like it or cant do it you wont be able to do it This is not a mean statement just a fact. Shooting is not Theory or Nonlinear dynamics. Its fun!!!!! Go split the atom else where not at the range.My m1 garand has less felt recoil tham my m1a '06 v 308 , both hurt more on the receving end.

 

[Jaywalker]

Interesting thread - particularly as I myself am prone to "paralysis by analysis." Go back to Preacherman's Principles on the first page, as they're still valid. All else being equal, a 7mm-08 will feel less painful than a 308, which will feel better than a 30-06. It's the "all else being equal" that's hard to duplicate.

Regarding stock fit, writer John Barsness has articulated a hypothesis regarding "stock fit" by body type. He believes that short-necked people with square shoulders (most men fall into this body type) benefit from a straighter stock, while long-necked people with sloping shoulders (most women...) benefit from a higher comb. As a long-necked, sloped shoulder man, I've benefitted from his guidance. Before learning that I stuck mostly with straight stocks that I found more visually appealing, but now I find the montecarlo combs actually fit me better. (Still think straight stocks are prettier, though...)

Personally, I have no use for the 30-06. (Flame suit - ON) It's at the upper end of recoil that an occasional shooter can handle (yes, I know, "Learn to shoot.") Yes, you can buy ammunition in any yurt you happen to track past. Yes, it's plenty accurate. And yes, it's effective against most anything on earth. It's this last point that bothers me - why do I need something that could be (and has been) used on Cape Buffalo when all I'm shooting is a whitetail or a mule deer? I just wonder how many kids were started out by their fathers with a "real rifle" in 30-06 that truly beat the snot out of them, then gave up hunting for life. (It was easier when the 30-30 was the gold standard.)

I'm sympathetic with the need to stay with readily-availble factory ammo. From what I've seen, the 7mm-08 is getting pretty close to "standard," recently. The 243 Winchester is already "standard," both in rifles and ammunition stocks, and will kill deer really dead, really quickly. If I'd started there instead of with a 30-06, I'd have got a lot more practice that didn't involve losing a flinch.

 

[Tall Pine]

This was a fun read

Nema-many years later...do you still like the 7mm08?

Do you mind giving me a quick recap on the info you gleaned? Specifically, whats the max effective range of the 7mm08? And is the recoil a lot less than a 308/30-06, just a little less, or somewhere in between? (based on what you researched/gleaned).

Thanks to Nema for asking all the million questions, and for all those that stuck it out and answered. I swear I was laughing at the end when several where writing "just buy one already". Classic stuff.

Thanks

 

[AStone]

Interesting to see this thread still alive after several years of hibernation.

Pine, I'll have to defer to others to answer your questions about recoil and range of the 7mm. Shortly after engaging this thread, I decided to buy one of those ancient pieces of technology - a .30-30 in a Marlin 336 - instead of a 7mm08. My reasoning had to do as much with where I live (very near the Pacific Ocean on the western side of the Cascades, in rain forest, where shots are not long).

But if I buy a bolt gun for use in the big sky country to the east of here, it'll be a 7mm08. I learned enough about that caliber to know that's the one for me in open country where longer shots on mulies, white tail or antelope are called for. It's got lower recoil than .308, can be reloaded in a wide range of bullet sizes (110 to 180 if I remember correctly, even though factory loads are mostly 120 and 140), is a very flat shooter, is a short action (unlike .30-06), and is available in a bunch of fine rifles.

I still have no interest in .30-06.

But my next purchase will likely be an AR ... for other reasons.

 

[Tall Pine]

Thats hilarious, you went with yet a different round. Cant you just see all the eyes rolling?

You and I are a lot alike I think....research things to death and then do it again just to be sure. I enjoy it almost as much as the owning part. You learn so much and really get to know what you end up with.

You will love the Marlin 30/30. A grand ole rifle that will always be capable for its intended use. Dont they make a pointed tip bullet (plastic tip maybe) that you dont have to worry about accidental discharge in the mag tube, making for "ballistic effiiciency" in the air?

On an aside, look into a Colt 6920LE for the AR. Got one and love it. Researched it to death and that was what we felt was the best pick. Feel free to PM me or ask any Q's on that subject.

 

[AStone]

Pine,

Yes, eyes are rolling. I'll deal with it.

I'm an academic science type, so "researching" the literature before making a move is part of my fiber.
It's fun, informative; I learned a huge amount in this thread. No regrets.
And, I hope this thread helps others with a similar question.

I suspect eventually, if I live long enough, I'll own a 7mm.

But for now, the .30-30 demands my attention. I'm having it cut down to a 17.5" barrel
as soon as my cash flow improves, and putting a good set of peeps on it.
I truly love the rifle.

Thanks for the advice on the Colt AR. Based on research I've done for a while,
I think I've already decided that one as well, but still open to advice.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

For me, the .308 is all the recoil I want to endure for regular target shooting. I'm not sure what .308 recoil is like in a 7.5 lb hunting rifle, but in my Remmy 700 SPS Tac, .308 heavy barrel, about 10 lbs with bipod and scope, its downright comfortable, not bad at all. I can shoot 40 rounds out of this thing and still be doing fine, no sore shoulder. I can load 125's to 180's and kill any medium to big game in the lower 48.