30-30 shooting sideways bullets

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And, remind me, please:
Why would anyone who
doesn't shoot > one box/wk
try to shoot a deer beyond 150 m?
Click to expand...

Because I can shoot better than you? I don't know about you, but I don't have to shoot thousands of rounds a year to be able to hit what I aim at. In fact, I'm not likely to shoot (or need to) more than 100 rounds a year from my deer rifle...
 
Well I finally got back to the range. To update, I THOROUGHLY cleaned the bore using both regular hoppe's 9 and hoppe's 9 bench rest copper solvent. This is how it shot:

3030ammo2.JPG


I intend to let hornady know their ammo keyholes in my microgrooved barrel and stick with Remington ammo for this particular rifle.

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
Try and recover a bullet that is not to badly damaged.
If it is skidding you can often see it in the rifling markings left on the bullet.
 
I intend to let hornady know their ammo keyholes in my microgrooved barrel
Click to expand...
See post #17 for the phone number!

Please be sure and let use know what they have to say about it.
Inquiring minds want to know!

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rcmodel
 
Jinzoningen80, Please let the rest of us know what Hornady says!

Over 700 readers of this thread. It would be a dis-service to your fellow THR members/friends not to let us know what Hornady says.

I'd also call Marlin.

I haven't tried any of the LeverEvolution cartridges yet, (I'm waiting for the bullets to become available so I can reload them). I'm a bit aprehensive to try some now.

-Steve
 
Just curious, but did you mike those bullets? Keyholing means the bullet is not stabilizing, which generally means either that it is too small to engage the rifling, or it is so hard that the jacket is not engraved.

Remember in a breech loading rifle, the bullet must be at the groove diameter (.308"), not the bore diameter (.300"). The pressure forces the bullet into the rifling.

Jim
 
I'm curious too as to what they said. Been reading bunches on the ammo at the Marlin Owners forum and they all seem to love it. Well, other than the fact they have to re-sight the rifle due to the higher vel. impacting higher on target. Believe avg is 6" high at 100yds vs. standard ammo sighted in dead on.
Matter of fact, have a NIB Marlin coming in today w/7 bxs of this ammo... so REALLY want to know what Hornady says! ;)
 
"Jack", where did I say anything about handloading? I said he could mike the bullets. It is possible to pull bullets from factory ammo and the bullets of some loaded rounds can be miked without pulling them.

Jim
 
as jim said,,,i too would like to know what the dia. of the bullets are

i would guess if they missed the .308 dimension only a few tenths with the higher velocity and the shallow micro groove rifling it could be striping and not spinning fast enough to stabilize

i would like to hear hornady's comments too

i think i would have to pull one of the bullets and mic it ,,,,, i would bet it will be undersize


ocharry
 
That is why I have been urging him to contact Hornady with the lot number of the ammo for over two weeks now!

It is very possible this is from an early lot and they may already know something, and do something about it, if you contact them.

Since it is not a safety issue, it is doubtful they would have issued a recall on an early lot, even if there had of been a slip-up in bullet diameter.

Call them ASAP!

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rcmodel
 
Sorry for the slang. The term "mike" as a noun is short for "micrometer"; as a verb it means to measure with a micrometer, as "the bullet diameter mikes .3085 inches."

Jim
 
Close-in deer load..

If you were shooting them at 20 yards or less, you would get a heck of a knock-down with those Hornadys! I bet they would stagger a rhino!
 
keyholing can be caused by a couple of different things. To much bullet for the twist rate will cause it, due to lack of stabilization. Also, if the bullet drops below supersonic before hitting the target that too will cause the bullet to tumble. The shockwave caused when the bullet drops below supersonic destabilizes it.
 
This is all true, but I doubt it causing is his problem

He is shooting factory loaded 160 grain 30-30 ammo in a Marlin 30-30, at a 100 yards or less.

Bullet weight within standard range? Check!
Rifling twist rate standard for caliber? Check!
Velocity within normal range? Check!

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rcmodel
 
yeah, I realized that after I read more of the thread, and it does seem much more likely that the problem lies with the hornady bullets themselves.
 
sorry for the delay on this thread. I've been.... busy to say the least. Today i was cleaning up the work bench and I found the note to myself to call hornady so call them I did. Let me begin by saying that they have one of the best automated answering machine messages i've ever heard. Everyone should call just to hear those options.

When i finally did get a tech-support rep on the line, I explained how the rounds were keyholing after only 5 feet. He was thorougly amazed and informed me that he had never heard of this before. He also said he has a friend who has a micro-grooved barrel and it shoots them fine. He informed me that he would pass the info on to R&D and suggested I call Marlin to see what they say.

I'm gonna leave it with this summary. My Marlin 336 (1964 manufacture) 3030 shoots remington round-nose 150 and 170gr ammo just fine. The gun is in great working order.

The Hornady 160gr leverevolution keyholes badly in the same gun but shoots fantastic in my Winchester 30-30 with a normal-grooved barrel.

No one else seems to have this problem. File under "cold case files."
 
A buddy of mine missed a 14 yard shot at a deer with a 336 and this "Lever-Evolution" ammo....wonder if this is the culprit?
 
It wasn't me though thats for sure. I didn't trade that gun off because I refused to shoot it again either. This is interesting though, Hornady also had a recall on some batches of the leverevolution. I am thinking maybe just stick with the tried and true stuff. Hornady just might not be ready to take over the lever world yet. On a side note the gun prevously shot great at 50 and 100 that deer was the first round of leverevolution through the barrel and it was a clean miss at 14 yards exactly. Bad day in the deer woods for me cough cough I mean who ever that was that missed.
 
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Somehow, I doubt that any bullet would have time to keyhole and get that far of course (Minute of deer) in 14 yards!

I don't think you can blame that one on the ammunition!

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rcmodel
 
agreed... even with my horrendous keyholing at only 5 feet, i was still able to keep it on paper at 25 meters.

;)
 
Keyholing?

What I don't understand about this is how on earth all the holes in the target are perfect sideways hits. My experience with unstable bullets is that they hit the paper target with different amounts of skew as they tumble. It is amazing that all these bullets seem to prefer to travel sideways.
 
Well its the closest I have ever missed anything. I also have seen a recall notice for the stuff at sportsman wharehouse of course not my batch # though. I don't know what happened but I came out of the woods that day with great disappointment in myself. I waited for him to come in as close as he was going to come and let him turn broadside to sticks or brush between he and I. I feel convinced it may partially shooter error but I feel know that ammo is at least equally responsible. IMHO
 
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