30 Cal. Velocity Question, please help

[Desertrat357]

So I know this argument has been discussed over and over. The 300 WSM vs 300 Win Mag. I pretty much have my mind made up on the 300 WSM. My reasons being I much prefer the shorter action and belt less case. However I have heard that actual velocities aren't quite as fast as advertised. Can anybody share their experience with that?

 

[rcmodel]

Just glancing at a reloading manual.

The .300 WinMag is about 50 to 100 FPS faster then the .300 Whizzem with any bullet weight.

rc

 

[jmr40]

If I happened to own either, I doubt if I'd trade for the other. But if I were buying one I'd pass on the Win Wag in favor of the WSM.

RC is right, I can come within 50-100 fps of a 300 Win Mag with my 300 WSM. Using H4350 I can get 180's up to just under 3000 fps with very good accuracy. I tried RL-17 and was almost 100 fps faster, but the accuracy was not there. Most 300 WM's will be in the 3050-3100 fps range.

Where the WSM has an advantage is that it uses quite a bit less powder. I can get 2970 fps with 65 gr of H-4350 in my WSM. A 300 WM can beat that by about 70 fps, but needs 82 gr of RL-25 to do it. The combination of the 70 fps speed reduction and using less powder adds up to about 10% less recoil.

 

[Desertrat357]

Thanks guys. That's what I thought, and proves that what I had read and heard was a little far fetched. Just under 3000 fps is perfect and a big improvement over my 30-06.

 

[USSR]

RC is right, I can come within 50-100 fps of a 300 Win Mag with my 300 WSM. Using H4350 I can get 180's up to just under 3000 fps with very good accuracy. I tried RL-17 and was almost 100 fps faster, but the accuracy was not there. Most 300 WM's will be in the 3050-3100 fps range.

Where the WSM has an advantage is that it uses quite a bit less powder. I can get 2970 fps with 65 gr of H-4350 in my WSM. A 300 WM can beat that by about 70 fps, but needs 82 gr of RL-25 to do it. The combination of the 70 fps speed reduction and using less powder adds up to about 10% less recoil.

Continuing on with getting nearly the same velocity with less powder, consider the .30-06 loaded to it's full potential. With a 190gr SMK ahead of 60.7gr of RL22, I get an honest 2900fps. This duplicates Federal's Gold Medal Match load for the .300WM. Also, this is with the aforementioned load generating 59k psi compared to the 62k+ psi loads of the magnum boys.

Don

 

[oldpapps]

300 WSM vs 300 Win Mag.

To begin... I do not now nor do I expect to ever have a rifle chambered in either flavor.

In theory, theory only, a short/shorter action would have less flex and there by be more accurate.

The longer action would allow for a longer case body, more internal space and more space for larger amounts of powder. Thus in theory again, greater velocity.

In practice, I would have to have a rail gun to see any increase in accuracy potential between a short and long action, if any.

Both cartridges pushed to the practical, safe with safety margin, limits are very close to being the same. 50 or 100 FPS can be the difference due to temperature, humidity and barometric pressures.

To me, both are functionally the same and both nominally run over-bore charges and toast the barrel too quickly for my tastes. They both have their place and do a very good job if it.

These are my views. Don't confuse me with facts

 

[c.latrans]

Actual velocities rarely measure up as advertised, in my experience. I lean on a .300 Win Mag for the majority of North American big game, and have for 25 or so years partially because I love the particular rifle and shoot it well. If I were going shopping for one of the two today, though, I would go with the WSM. Better overall design, in my view. YMMV.

 

[Bio-Chem]

I like the efficiency of the WSM line. It's pretty impressive. The 300WSM has gotten excellent accuracy out of the cartridge, just like the Win Mag. I doubt any animal would know the difference being shot with the same bullet 100fps slower. Unless you are a max velocity buff then the WSM is a hell of an option.

 

[MCMXI]

However I have heard that actual velocities aren't quite as fast as advertised. Can anybody share their experience with that?

I've shot some Barnes VOR-TX 165gr TTSX over my CED M2 chronograph and the average velocity of 13 rounds was 3,103 fps compared to 3,130 fps listed on the box, so that's fairly close to advertised. Regardless, you can't go wrong with either the .300 WSM or the .300 Win Mag. I have a Remington 700 and Kimber 8400 chambered in .300 WSM. I also have an Accuracy International, custom Remington 700 and a Winchester Model 70 chambered in .300 Win Mag. Both are excellent cartridges. If I had to pick one it'd probably be the .300 Win Mag for historic significance since it's based on the wonderful .375 H&H Magnum which is one of the greatest cartridges ever conceived. As a reloader, I have no problems with belted cases, I don't care about short vs. long actions, and accuracy from either is outstanding.

 

[sage5907]

Desertrat, if I had to make your decision and I was going to use the rifle for hunting I would put on a pair of gloves and handle 3 cartridges at the same time to see if I could load and unload the rifle with gloves and load and unload in the dark with gloves and that would influence my decision. The shorter cartridge for the 308 Winchester didn't work very well with me when I used it in place of a 30-06. The short action and the short cartridges were a problem for me.

 

[Desertrat357]

Thanks for all the input guys. Really appreciate it.

1858- thanks for that post. The velocity you were getting compared to factory is more than close enough. BTW how do you like that kimber 8400?

 

[MCMXI]

how do you like that kimber 8400?

I love it!! A few months after buying the 8400 Montana I bought its bigger brother in the form of an 8400 Talkeetna in .375 H&H Mag. My next bolt action rifle will be an 84M Montana in .308 Win and eventually I'd like a Caprivi in .458 Lott. When it comes to hunting rifles, Kimber makes everything I need or want.

 

[Desertrat357]

Agreed! I've always had a love affair with kimber rifles. About four months ago I bought a tactical custom II 1911 and it is one hell of a pistol. Can't wait till I get my hands on an 8400 classic!

 

[ttheel]

When I was faced with this option recently, I went with the WSM. My brother owns both and chooses to hunt with the WSM. His experience with both played alot into my own decision.

 

[Desertrat357]

Thanks everybody. Looks like I'll be getting 300WSM hopefully sooner rather than later! Perhaps its just my desire to buy a "modern cartridge" since the newest cartridge design in my arsenal is over 50 years old haha.

 

[Bio-Chem]

well if "modern cartridge" is your goal then there are a lot worse choices you could go with. Im sure the 300WSM should do you well

 

[rooster59]

300 win mag is a lot easier to find ammo for in the places I go.

 

[2zulu1]

You'll enjoy the short mag, I like loading the 165gr SSTs, very accurate with ~5/8" groups. The WinMag shines with the heavier weights (longer barrel), but the 30-06AI does too.