With the successes that the 338 lapua has been achieving in Afghanistan, I read that the military is moving more towards this for medium/long-range anti-personnel and anti-materiel use over .300 and .50. The role of the 338 in long-range anti-personnel use is unquestionable, but I am wondering about the efficacy of that round for anti-materiel use. I am sure that all of the "special" loads are available (incendiary, armor-piercing, etc.), but what advantage would the 338 have over a .50 Barrett? I suppose the main advantage would be "luggability" but 338's are not lightweight. Nevertheless, any additional weight savings in the Afghan mountains has to be a blessing.
338 Lapua for Anti-materiel Use
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Owen
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at the moment there are no US issued .338s on the white side of the military. They are pretty popular in the european side. From conversations I've had, the european engagement envelope is 800m, where the advantage is in reduced wind deflection.
There is currently a program wending its way through SOCOM to procure a Medium Sniper Rifle to replace the 7.62 and .300WM weapons, but that soliciation hasn't even been released yet. In that program the expectation is that most of the vendors will offer .338 Lapuas, as well as a few oddballs like a .338 Norma or two and the .408 Chey-tac.
Against material targets, yes, the .338 is giving up quite a bit versus the .50. There are some AP, API and APT rounds available for the .338LM, but with a 300gr projo, you're really giving up a huge amount of payload.
There is currently a program wending its way through SOCOM to procure a Medium Sniper Rifle to replace the 7.62 and .300WM weapons, but that soliciation hasn't even been released yet. In that program the expectation is that most of the vendors will offer .338 Lapuas, as well as a few oddballs like a .338 Norma or two and the .408 Chey-tac.
Against material targets, yes, the .338 is giving up quite a bit versus the .50. There are some AP, API and APT rounds available for the .338LM, but with a 300gr projo, you're really giving up a huge amount of payload.
50 Shooter
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When the .338 can out preform these two .50 BMG rounds against, well... anything. Then it might have a role, until then I doubt it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/slap.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/slap.htm
HorseSoldier
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+1, even in whiteside SOF 300 Win Mag is the new (ish) thing out there.
Zak Smith
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Maverick223
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The .338LM could feed a squad for a week...after taking out one of the aforementioned "APCs". 
I would imagine that the .338LM would be limited to personnel engagements or targets of opportunity. I would think a M2 (or larger) would likely be employed if there was a armored target (even for vehicles), and one was available. In contrast from what I have heard the .338LM performs favorably with respect to anti-personnel long range fire when compared to ancient technology like the .50BMG...and comes with a substantial weight reduction markedly increasing portability.
I would imagine that the .338LM would be limited to personnel engagements or targets of opportunity. I would think a M2 (or larger) would likely be employed if there was a armored target (even for vehicles), and one was available. In contrast from what I have heard the .338LM performs favorably with respect to anti-personnel long range fire when compared to ancient technology like the .50BMG...and comes with a substantial weight reduction markedly increasing portability.
Maverick223
Member
You got it...if performance were the only consideration every sniper would have their own 105mm Howitzer.
HorseSoldier
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If the bad guys actually have real armor, the radio would be a much better weapon than a 338 (or 50 cal) sniper rifle. Even with light armored vehicles a sniper can very rapidly get into a real uneven gun fight real fast -- i.e. needing to make a million dollar shot with a scoped rifle versus a $0.50 shot with a 25mm or 30mm cannon.
Maverick223
Member
HS, that is what I am referring to...M2 or larger includes anything from a .50 MG all the way up to a call for an air strike or arty.
MD_Willington
Member
Sure about Nissan.. I've seen enough torched Hilux to know that they are Toyotas...
Nissan Murano is used by our side over there...
Nissan Murano is used by our side over there...
Well those are Taliban recruits they drive in red Toyota pickups so the predator can spot them easy , but elite Taliban traveling in Nissans or Mitsubishi pickups , it was my mistake I should of include Toyota and Mitsubishi, however if they were using Chevy, Dodge or Ford trucks the .338 would have difficulty and then 50 cal would be a better choice, imagine those guys in the back of the F 150
, but elite Taliban traveling in Nissans or Mitsubishi pickups , it was my mistake I should of include Toyota and Mitsubishi, however if they were using Chevy, Dodge or Ford trucks the .338 would have difficulty and then 50 cal would be a better choice, imagine those guys in the back of the F 150
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giggitygiggity
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The Armalite AR30 in .338 is awesome. The kick is not bad at all although I have only shot in from the prone with a bipod. I though the worse part was how load the rifle was and the muzzle blast. The muzzle blast is so powerful that it seems to create a pressure difference in your sinuses and it made me feel like I got bopped in the nose. You need a good scope or else it will easily lose zero and/or break. Excellent, powerful, accurate weapon.
Maverick223
Member
How bout' the DTA SRS in .338LM? Haven't shot the .338LM (yet), but the .300WM sure is a blast.
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Back to the donkey issue http://www.urbanreflex.com/donkey.html
WASHINGTON - U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has admitted for
the first time that despite three weeks of sustained bombardment, Taliban
forces in Afghanistan still retain donkey superiority in the region.
"We may have underestimated the tenacity and operational effectiveness of the
donkey component of the opposition defences," Rumsfeld told reporters.
The Taliban are thought to possess around five hundred donkeys, including
several dozen highly-trained 'special' donkeys. Rumsfeld was forced to admit
that the U.S. Army has no donkeys at all, prompting calls for an urgent review
of military spending.
The situation is not helped by the fact that due to a technical anomaly, many of
America's smart weapons cannot distinguish between donkeys and hospitals.
There are now signs of a division within the U.S. defence department as to how
best to deal with the donkey issue, with Rumsfeld favouring the deployment of
anti-donkey ground troops whilst Secretary of State Colin Powell is thought to
prefer the use of airborne explosive carrots.
"The U.S. achieved air superiority early on in the campaign by flying a plane in
the air," explained Robert Flynn of Jane's Defence Weekly. "It also has ground
superiority, bomb superiority, gun superiority, man superiority and uniform
superiority. But they probably would like donkey superiority as well, just to be
on the safe side."
It has also emerged that the Taliban donkeys were actually paid for by the CIA
as part of its covert operations against the Soviet Union. With the deployment
of ground troops seemingly imminent, the donkey issue looks set to become a
major factor in the war on terror.
ok here where .338 comes in
the first time that despite three weeks of sustained bombardment, Taliban
forces in Afghanistan still retain donkey superiority in the region.
"We may have underestimated the tenacity and operational effectiveness of the
donkey component of the opposition defences," Rumsfeld told reporters.
The Taliban are thought to possess around five hundred donkeys, including
several dozen highly-trained 'special' donkeys. Rumsfeld was forced to admit
that the U.S. Army has no donkeys at all, prompting calls for an urgent review
of military spending.
The situation is not helped by the fact that due to a technical anomaly, many of
America's smart weapons cannot distinguish between donkeys and hospitals.
There are now signs of a division within the U.S. defence department as to how
best to deal with the donkey issue, with Rumsfeld favouring the deployment of
anti-donkey ground troops whilst Secretary of State Colin Powell is thought to
prefer the use of airborne explosive carrots.
"The U.S. achieved air superiority early on in the campaign by flying a plane in
the air," explained Robert Flynn of Jane's Defence Weekly. "It also has ground
superiority, bomb superiority, gun superiority, man superiority and uniform
superiority. But they probably would like donkey superiority as well, just to be
on the safe side."
It has also emerged that the Taliban donkeys were actually paid for by the CIA
as part of its covert operations against the Soviet Union. With the deployment
of ground troops seemingly imminent, the donkey issue looks set to become a
major factor in the war on terror.
ok here where .338 comes in
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