.357 Loading Question

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Ida Noski

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I'm sure this has been covered somewhere before, but I have to ask about some specifics regarding using bullets from different manufacturers with the same weight and type, same powder, same primers and how the loading data is different.
I will be using W296 with Winchester Small Pistol Magnum primers because that's what I've got a bunch of.
I have "The Complete Reloading Manual for the .357 Magnum" book which is a compilation of all the manufacturers data for components and powders.

I have some Hornady 158 grn XTP's that this book shows a max load of 16.0 grains of 296.
Also have some Winchester 158 grn JHP's that the book shows 16.6 grains of 296 and a message to NOT reduce the load.
I also have some Remington 158 grn JHP's which the book does not list, to throw into the mix.

So, my question is, can I safely use one load for all, using the different slugs?
I like to keep things simple, but I guess if I really wanted to make it simple I'd buy only one kind of bullet:D
Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.
Thanks and have a safe and happy 4th of July.

God Bless our troops

Jim
 
Perhaps, but maybe not! Hows that for a positive answer?

Conventional wisdom states that you should work up a load for each different bullet. Reason being the difference is construction could result in more friction in one bullet, raising pressures, than another. Softer core lead, and composition of the jacket/length of the jacket can play havoc with pressures.If you are saying you're going to load all at the max load, then NO, most definetly NO!

There's more to it than just the weight of the projectile.
 
snuffy,

Thanks for the quick reply. I am not looking to load max loads.
I figured there were some things that would come into play such as length of bearing surface.
You have raised some good points regarding the lead density and jacket composition.
Keep it coming and if anyone has favorite loads for these components, please share.

Thanx again!

Jim
 
The only manual I have handy in my office is the Sierra 50th Edition, but it lists loads for 158 grain bullets from 15.9 grains to 17.3 grains for both their soft point and hollow point bullets with Winchester 296. This particular manual doesn't list pressures, but my experience with 296 has been that it delivers higher velocities and lower pressures with maximum loads than most other powders, with the exception of H-110. In this manual, Sierra lists maximum loads of H-110 for the same bullets from 13.3 grains to 16.3 grains, so their experience at the time the manual was written was that there was a difference in the two powders, but that's not the point in this thread anyway.

With the loads you've mentioned, at the lower end, you could interchange the bullets without any danger, but may experience different points of impact, depending on the distances you fire the rounds. I've used different bullets in the .357 Magnum with the same charge of 296 and haven't had any problems.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Since there are so many different sources of data and all seem to be different I have go to using the data from the powder manufacturer ONLY. I'm using H110/W296 for my 158 gr .357 Magnum loads. (both powder are the same and the load data is identical) The Hodgdon site has a minimum load of 15.0 gr. and a maximum of 16.7 gr. I load the max for my carbine but find it is very hot for my 4" revolver. I have found a charge of 15.7/15.8 gr is a very good charge for a 4" revolver. http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
 
I don't use 296 or H-110. One of the reasons is because of the seeming contradiction with info. One tells you this, another tells you that, and then you aren't supposed to reduce???

The other reason is that I use 2400. Enough said.

Stinger
 
Your definitely smart to be reloading. I was at the store looking at the prices... I cant even afford the .357 in PMC these days! hehe good luck!
 
I don't use 296 or H-110. One of the reasons is because of the seeming contradiction with info. One tells you this, another tells you that, and then you aren't supposed to reduce???

The other reason is that I use 2400. Enough said.

Stinger
Click to expand...
Stinger,
I think it's a little arrogant of you to tell everyone what to use and then say "Enough said." This is a discussion board, not Stinger's law. It may be enough for you but not for me. There is nothing wrong with H110/W296, those powders work very well for Magnum loads. The information is not contradictory. The books you are using might be giving you different data but if you go to the Hodgdon site and get the data right from them, there is no problem. Since Hodgdon owns both Winchester Powders and IMR the loading data is right on the Hodgdon site for all 3 company's powders.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

As for not reducing, you aren't supposed to reduce below the minimum load but that's true for many powders. Some faster powders are more forgiving but the slower powders should be loaded as the company suggests. For a 158 gr XTP bullet Hodgdon's data gives a Min charge of 15.0 gr and a Max charge of 16.7 gr. The Alliant site give you no loading range for their 2400 powder under a 158 gr Jacketed bullet for the .357 Magnum. They tell you to use 14 gr and that's it. I'm guessing Alliant doesn't even want you to have a range of use.

Just because you don't like a powder doesn't make everyone dislike it. :rolleyes:
 
Thanks to everyone for their input and suggestions.
I have decided to try a load of 15.2 grains of 296 with magnum primer for all three bullets and see what kind of results I get.
It's been about 115 degrees here so it may be a while before I get to try them out.
For those of you that use 2400, do you use magnum primers?
My Dad used to use 2400 but when he passed away some of his loading data went with him.
Things that I've read recently claim that the 2400 of today is not the same as the 2400 of years ago. Dad's loads worked real nice but I'm not sure of the primers used.

Hold hard

Jim
 
ArchAngel,

I'm sorry I don't meet your approval, I'll sleep less tonight. :neener:

I don't have a problem with the other powders, I do have a problem with the load information. I realize Hogdon has info, but not for the bullets that I use, so what then becomes the minimum? "Don't load below minimum data," but data can conflict by a grain or more. Life is too short for me to worry about things like this, so I use what works.

What is arrogant about me telling you what powder I use? 2400 is THE classic magnum powder. There are others that are just as good, and some that are better. I don't load below minimum here, either, and you can find some contradictory minimums with 2400 as well, but not for the bullets that I use.

My pomposity knows no bounds, I guess. Use whatever you chose, but the arrogance I notice is those who get into a whizzing contest over who's guns/bullets/powder/girlfriend is better (Stinger's Law #1,) then get mad and lash out to make themselves feel better (Stinger's Law #2.) I told you what I did not like about the other powders, you chose to take offense to that, so who's got the problem?

Oh, and Jim, I do not use magnum primers with 2400. I also use 2400 for 41 magnum and Ruger loads of 45 Colt. I don't use magnum primers in any of my loads. Some people choose to do so, I don't see the need. If you are in colder climates you MAY have issues, so test accordingly. I notice you live in AZ, so that is probably not an issue for you.
 
Aah come on guys...You know Stinger's gettin' old and isn't as flexable as he once was...

And I use both 2400 and W-296 with great results...("Enough said")
 
My old man used to say "never get in a pissing contest with a skunk" you cant win. :neener:

We state our opinions and that's all they are, opinions. :)
 
IDrive,

I checked your link, impressive results. I hate to hijack and I know it is not hunting season, but have you been able to test your loads on anything other than paper?

One thing Dakotasin said really caught my attention:
i was shocked at the ferocity of the recoil and tremendous performance on tap w/ the cartridge.
Click to expand...

I concur. When loaded to its capabilities, the small magnum is quite impressive. But it is definitely a handful at these upper levels. Sharp recoil, blast, and flash...makes me a little feel a little disconcerted (maybe that's why I'm feeling old and inflexible ;))

By jumping up a caliber or two, more energy can be created with less perceived recoil. I've noticed this with both the 45 Colt and the 41 Magnum. I don't own a 44 magnum, but results would be similar. They seem more comfortable (to me) both physically and mentally.

The .357 magnum is probably one of the most tried tested handgun cartridge out there. If you can think about it, its been done. There is TONS of data and information out there. Remember, never try to reinvent the wheel, we simply don't have access to the equipment needed to keep us safe when we travel outside of published loads. I'm not saying that anyone is, but it is just good food for thought.
 
2400 and a mag primer is a better choice then 296 or H110. 296 can do funny thing at times. High pressure can result when increasing the power charge as little as .5gr. Here is a note from a Winchester's reloader's manual, 1999, free from Winchester. "NOTE 296 power is considered to be one of the best powders for use in magnum handgun cartridges. Recommended for these loads are the use of a winchester or winchester magnum primer and a very heavy crimp (high bullet pull). Failure to follow this procedure could result in poor ignition and/or squib loads under extreme circumstances, particularly in loads where less than 90% of the available powder space is being used (low loading density). Do not reduce powder charges with 296 powder. Any further reduction in powder charge or change in components can cause dangerous pressures." This means your are to load with the exact powder charge and components with no changes what so ever. I still use the 296 in the 44 mag. for maximum loads, but this is where i found out you can be running normal pressures and that .5gr increase can sky rocket the pressure. This does not happen with most, more stable powders. As you can see, the Winchester factory has said it all.
 
Stinger, I havent had a chance to further test the loads. I plan on doing some scientific gallon jug of water tests next time I am able to shoot on private property.
 
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp FROM HODGON SITE UNDER WARNING, IT READS -"For those loads listed where a starting load is not shown, start 10% below the suggested maximum load and then approach maximums carefully, watching for any sign of pressure (difficult extraction, cratered and flattened or blown primers, and unusual recoil). H110 and Winchester 296 loads should not be reduced more than 3%.

Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%."
 
BUT YET Hodgon"s reloading data on there website shows a 357 rem.mag. load for a 158 gr Hornady xtp using 296 powder. Starting load is 15.0gr.(28,600 cpu) max load is 16.7 gr. (40,700 cpu) I think the starting load is a little more than a 3 % reduction. lol Another good reason not to use any of Hodgon's powders. I wonder if they screwed up the IMR powder, hope not.
 
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