.357 v. 9mm

[GunGoBoom]

If it was a 2" gun, I'd say get the revo in 9x19. But for a 4" or more, go ahead and get the .357 - it will outperform a 9. Or, just get the best of all worlds & wait for the triad from Taurus, which shoots .357 mag, .38 spl, .38 super, and 9x19mm. For that matter, it would probably shoot .380 and 9x18 makarov as well, with the 9mm moonclips:

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=TRIAD-627B&category=Revolver

7 shots in a small ergo frame, shoots cheap .38 spl & cheap 9mm, as well as more expensive ammo. What's not to like? Accuracy will suffer a smidge from 9mm/.38 super but not enough to matter for defensive purposes.

 

[Mr_Moore]

Ruger SP101

I recently purchased a Ruger SP101 in .357 caliber.

I highly recommend this revolver - of course, this is my personal opinion and may not apply to you.

The weight of the SP101 is about 25 oz. I got the 2.25 barrel. It holds 5 rounds. It is stainless steel. I got it new for $379.00.

I bought an Uncle Mike's Sidekick holster for about $15.00 and it carries like a feather tucked inside my belt – I often forget that I am carrying it. Of course, this is a subjective opinion. My Mom hefted the gun (she is 74) and said, “Wow that is heavy.”

I bought a Hogue grip for $20.00 and it reduced the perceived recoil considerably. The gun fits my hand perfectly.

I also filed the razor sharp serrated hammer tang – it has a diamond design. I actually had several slices on my thumb from pulling the hammer back. The file job fixed this.

I find the trigger to be stiff, but not bad once I got used to it. I also did the poor man’s trigger job and dry fired it about 500 times – this improved the action. I did not go to the Wolf Spring Kit for easier pull and probably will not. I usually shoot single action anyway. I know… some experts say to always use double action. I disagree- again just my opinion.

I have a Smith and Wesson Model 19 6 shot and it is heavier than the SP101. Smith and Wesson recommend not feeding the Model 19 a steady diet of .357 loads. They say to practice with .38s. Additionally, the 125g .357 is not recommended at all as it can crack the forcing cone. Correct me on this if I am wrong.

I believe that if I am going to use .357 loads for protection that I should be shooting .357s for practice - again just my opinion. I am using the .357 because of the likelihood of a one shot end of conflict – the knock down power (kinetic energy) is much greater than that of a 9mm.

Hell, the noise and flame alone should end a conflict, even if you miss. The .357 turns heads on the range when everyone else is shooting 9mm and .40 calibers. Ok, I admit I get a kick out of this.

Ruger has no restrictions that I know of on shooting .357s out of their .357. This makes more sense to me than S&W’s policy.

I have found the recoil to be moderate. It’s nothing like the .45 derringer I shot a few months ago (that puppy really slapped me) nor the .44 magnum I tried. Again, I understand that this is relative. My wife does NOT appreciate the Ruger’s recoil and will not shoot it again. She does not mind the S&W loaded with .38 specials, but prefers my .22 Mark III for target practice. My 16 year old daughter shoots my S&W with .357s with no problem, yet my 14 year old son prefers the .38’s in it.

I have never tried one of the new Scandium .357’s, but the guy who owned the .45 derringer likened the recoil of that to his Scandium .357. This information made me happier that I had decided on the Ruger and not one of the lightweights.

I chose the revolver because of its reliability. I have had jams with every automatic I have ever shot – period.

I chose the 5 shot capacity because I am not a police officer nor am I in the military. I do not foresee a prolonged gun battle in my near future. (When I was in the military our side arm was a model 1911 .45) Because of the smaller cylinder, the 5 shot capacity allows for less weight.

I understand that most confrontations where a gun is fired are settled with one or two shots at the most. Correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents worth.

 

[AStone]

Ruger SP101 & Taurus Triad

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents worth.

Mr. Moore, welcome to THR! I'll give you at least a nickle for all those words. Nice post. Well written, informative and easy to read. Thanks for sharing that.

I've bookmarked that Ruger SP101. (Funny, I hadn't even looked at those yet; I've only looked so far at their GP line. Thanks for the motivation.)

I'll confess that at the moment, I've got my taste buds all set for a full 4" barrel. Their longest for that model is a 3 1/16. Obviously would be better for carry, but my carry is going to be my 9 (once I get that little permit). This .357 is more for field, range & bedside (in case another crazed meth head comes in my window some night). I want to have that extra stopping power ... er, wait, extra fps and an extra notch up that non-linear, step-function of ft-lbs. {I'm learning... }

_______

GunGoBoom, you get a gold star for recommendations. Wow! I like the look of that Taurus. Like the Ruger, it will eat .38, .357 AND - in a pinch - 9s. That's like the best of all possible worlds.

I've also owned a Taurus .38 spl (my first handgun) and liked it just fine. I only sold it to move up in, er fps & ft-lbs with a nine, plus just had to try an auto. But I miss the revolver. I think it's cool that with a revolver & my K9, I'll still be all DA. That's comforting to me in some way.

And, the Triad looks good. Really like the idea of the grip. Ribber, they call it.

And only 28.8 oz. Impressive. But what got my attention most was your comment "a small ergo frame". Please, could you tell me what the term "ergo frame" means? On their site, they refer to "Frame: Compact". Music to my ears, er small hands. (Like I said before, the Ruger GP101 & SW 6XX that I've tried felt a tad bit big. )

Too bad the Taurus is not available in stainless, but for the right fit, I'll deal with it. i'd just have to fondle it more with an oil or silicon cloth. I think I could handle that responsibility.

Any knowledge of how it would handle a steady diet of .357? Do they, like SW, recommend against a steady diet? I think I agree with Mr. Moore: it's great to have all those ammo options, but if one is going to use the .357 round for SD, it would pay to practice a lot with it (as well as the other calibers to see how it handles with various loads). But I'm open to opinions, also.

Very promising, that Taurus. I'll be looking for one locally to handle.

Thanks!

N~

 

[AStone]

Taurus tracker stainless

Earlier I wrote, "Too bad the Taurus is not available in stainless..."

But this just in: bingo - a Taurus stainless that's similar.

This is the Tracker instead of a Triad - seems to be marketed to packers and other outdoors people (that'd be me) for protection. There's no indication of whether it'll take 9 mm (thus, i presume it won't; seems if so, they'd list it as such since they explicitly state that for the Triad ... ?).

But, importantly: 1) it's stainless (my part of the country IS wet); 2) it's still got that compact frame.

I am impressed that Taurus specifies their revolver frames as compact, medium and large (for 8 round revolvers, looks like).

 

[Otherguy Overby]

There's more!

If you are bound and determined to get a .357, you might also consider something like this, to keep it company:

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/1894_centerfireRifles/1894C.htm

It sure seems that almost everyone loves lever guns in pistol calibers. I have one myself, but it's a .44 mag. I'm quite sure it needs a .357 to keep it company.

Trust me! hahahahahaha!

 

[BluesBear]

The Taurus Triad is touted as being able to fire .38 Special and .357 magnum and also 9mm Luger and .38 Super in moon clips.
Of course you could also shoot .38 Short Colt and .38 Long Colt.
I suspect that .380 would also work okay in the clips.
And since .38S&W is almost the same dimensions as .38 Super it might work also.

But, I'd advise against shooting the 9x18mm Makarov since it has a bullet diameter of .363" and that would be a mighty tight fit in a .357" bore.

 

[Cosmoline]

The .357 is IMHO the aureas mediocritas of revolver cartridges. It's not a wrist breaker like the larger magnums, but it packs enough punch to kill anything in North America--in theory at least. The versatility of the round is astounding, ranging from .38 Special wadcutters with about 150 ft. lbs. to over 1,600 ft. lbs. for some of the hot buffalo bores out of a Marlin 1892. That's a range few other cartridge combinations can offer, and it has the added bonus of being ubiquitous and cheap. It's also very easy to reload using store bought bullets or your own cast loads.

I find it far superior to the 9x19 and the .45 ACP as a back woods cartridge, and it more than holds its own in the urban self defense role.

 

[AStone]

The .357 is IMHO the aureas mediocritas of revolver cartridges. It's not a wrist breaker like the larger magnums, but it packs enough punch to kill anything in North America--in theory at least.

Cosmoline, you're talking my language. I'm mostly convinced. I'm thinking a 357 is going to be my next one. Hell, at this point, I'm even willing to eat more ramen for a while to make it happen.

If you are bound and determined to get a .357, you might also consider something like this, to keep it company:
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firea...ifles/1894C.htm

Oooooh, a Marlin Model 1894C lever action. <: drooling :>

I'm a sucker for lever actions. I owned a Remngton .35 caliber deer rifle until a decade ago, when i stupidly sold it in order to make it through grad school.

So, thinking of a .357 mag (same as my next pistol) level action with an 18.5" barrel (same as my 870) sends chills up my spine.
____

OK, so speaking of 357s, I have a question. I'll keep this (uncharacteristically for me) short:

I'd appreciate reading opinions about the following two revolvers compared to each other and SW 600 series & the Ruger GP100s:

1) Ruger SP101 (3+" barrels please)
@) Taurus Tracker (stainless but .357/.38 only?) or Triad (.357, .38 & 9mm).

I'm particularly curious about the following two characteristics of the later guns:
A) will they accept a steady diet of the mag rounds, or do they prefer moderate doses of those really hot chiles?
B) which one has the shortest length of pull? (Hopefully, this handgun novice is using the correct term to refer to the standardized distance to trigger while gripping the guns securely and comfortably.)

Thanks,

N~

 

[Sleeping Dog]

"aureas mediocritas" ... Cosmoline, you're talking my language

It sure isn't my language . I'd translate it as "halfassed halo", or, in the case of guns, "not a very impressive fireball".

Anyway, the reason I'm typing here ...

"length of pull" - distance to trigger while gripping the gun

I woulda guessed it's the distance the DA trigger has to move backward to cock the hammer until it's released. If so, then for a given amount of enery stored up in the hammer spring during cocking, a shorter trigger pull means a higher trigger effort. Too short, and it takes a gorilla to shoot it (in a contolled way). Something about levers and mechanical advantage.

Is that what "length of pull" is?

Regards.

 

[AStone]

Length of pull: what is it?

It sure isn't my language . I'd translate it as "halfassed halo", or, in the case of guns, "not a very impressive fireball".

LOL.

I think I agree, Sleeping Dog. It seems like just a bit of a slight of that gun, even if a good-natured punch. But I know Cosmoline from other threads as a straight shooter (ha, at least with words), and trust his judgement. Plus, for me, with a smaller body frame, "not a wrist breaker but enough punch to [theoretically] kill anything in North America" appeals to me.

Given that, I may be willing to accept a less impressive fireball.

However, I'm glad to read of your alternative interpretation of length of pull. I'm betting there are experts on the forum that can sort it out for us.

I'm interested in that concept that you suggest, but equally as much in the distance from the backstrap to the trigger. I want to be able to grip the gun securely, comfortably with the skin between my thumb and forefinger bunched up a bit, and still lay at least the first digit - ideally up to the first joint - of my trigger finger flat on the trigger.

I'm not sure what the relevant name for that measurement is. I was thinking "length of pull", but could totally be wrong.

Corrections welcomed.

N~

 

[BluesBear]

Length Of Pull (LOP) is applicable only to firearms with shoulder stocks and is measured from the center of the trigger to the center of the buttplate.


What you are referring to is commonly called Trigger Reach. I don't know of any other specific technical termiology for it. Trigger Reach applies only to guns that have a full pistol style grip or thumbhole stock and is measured from the center of the trigger at rest to the web of the shooters hand when the gun is properly gripped.

 

[MillCreek]

In regards to the post above by NemA, I own 'several' Ruger and Taurus .357 revolvers, albeit all of my Taurus revolvers are snubby carry models. I own the Taurus 650 and 651 and some Ruger SP-101s and various Ruger Sixes. I no longer currently own any S&W medium or large frames in .357.

I like my revolvers by both manufacturers. However, of all the choices you have listed, I would still go with a 4" stainless GP-100, Security Six, or a 3" SP-101. I would lean toward the SP-101 in 3" since it would also make a wonderful carry piece.

Any of the Rugers or Taurii will shoot full-power .357 rounds all day long, and I would give a edge on this to the Rugers. Of note, the Ruger is considerably easier to do a detailed field strip and clean than the Taurus or S&W.

I really think that your needs could well be met by a 3" stainless SP-101: tough, durable, accurate, cost-effective, fun to shoot and could also be a very viable carry piece.

 

[Mr_Moore]

Thanks for the kind words.

Ergo means ergonomic.

______________________________________
One entry found for ergonomics.


Main Entry: er·go·nom·ics
Pronunciation: "&r-g&-'nä-miks
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
Etymology: erg- + -nomics (as in economics)
: an applied science concerned with designing and arranging things people use so that the people and things interact most efficiently and safely -- called also human engineering
- er·go·nom·ic /-mik/ adjective
- er·go·nom·i·cal·ly /-mi-k(&-)lE/ adverb
- er·gon·o·mist /(")&r-'gä-n&-mist/ noun

 

[fallingblock]

Good onya' Nematocyst 870....

You're becoming a gun-addict!

Lots of good advice above, this is a great place for learning.

I'll share my own preferences, since I know more about them than anyone else's (apologies to Henry Thoreau).

If you've found the factory grip of the Ruger GP-100 too large, be sure and try the grip on the fixed sight GP-100. I have the 4", but at present only the three inch barrels are catalogued in .357 fixed sight GP-100.
The grip on the fixed sight GP-100 is perfect for my paw.

The grips are interchangeable between GP-100's - for $12 or so you can buy the smaller grip and install it on the adjustable sighted GP-100.

As for the 3 1/16th SP-101 -

it is a beautifully proportioned and delightful little fivegun.

The one I owned (before all sub-4" revolvers were 'banned' in Australia) was very pleasant to shoot with factory 125 grain .357 and very accurate.

You're obviously gonna have to get one of each!

The Marlin 1894C is a fine choice for a .357 carbine.

Light, handy and very slick once it's 'worn-in' a bit.

Mine is equipped with a Lyman 66LA receiver sight and will make one-hole groups for as long as the ammo lasts at 25 meters, and stay inside the ten ring of the 50 meter pistol target at 50 meters (until I get tired and flinch).

Now that we've assisted you in allocating your next few weeks disposable income....

 

[AStone]

The money finally got here

Folks,

More thanks for your advice. This is very interesting.

BluesBear, yes, Trigger Pull. I knew that before, but forgot. Thanks for reminder.

If you've found the factory grip of the Ruger GP-100 too large, be sure and try the grip on the fixed sight GP-100. I have the 4", but at present only the three inch barrels are catalogued in .357 fixed sight GP-100.
The grip on the fixed sight GP-100 is perfect for my paw.

The grips are interchangeable between GP-100's - for $12 or so you can buy the smaller grip and install it on the adjustable sighted GP-100.

FallingBlock, my friend, thanks. Interesting suggestion. I did indeed find the Ruger GP-100 to be just a "tad" large. Since I seem to have my heart set on the longer 4" barrel, rather than a 3" that you and MillCreek suggest, I'd like to look into the interchangable grip option.

I'm looking now on the Ruger web site at the grips page
http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAAccFACat?group=12
but I can't sort out the "smaller grips" of which you write.

Can you point me in the right direction, please?

I confess, I really liked the feel, weight and balance of the GP100, and though I suspect the Taurii would be serviceable pistols, there's just something about that Ruger...

My LONG awaited IRS refund check came in the mail tonight!!!!!

#1 purchase: Rem 870P.
#2: 0.357 revolver. Which one remains to be determined, but am closing in on it, thanks to the help in this thread and one other.

Ah, life is good.

Gimme gun addiction over drug addiction any day.

 

[AStone]

Taurus porting: effects?

So I'm leaning most strongly towards the following two .357 revolvers:

A) Ruger GP100 (Currently with a slight lead, but the lead is changing daily. Even that 3" barrel is looking good, and I can imagine the balance must be supurb; but I'm still lusting for a 4". Am I being unreasonable?)

B) Taurus Tracker or Triad with a clear preference so far for the stainless Tracker, even if it doesn't eat the same variety of cartridges.

Question: both of the Tauri have ported barrels. (And I gotta confess: they just look sexy. )

Can anybody describe if and how the ports affect the ballistics?

That is, I have no doubt that the ports slow the verticle acceleration of the pistol, and that's desirable. But at what price? Do the ports reduce the fps or ft-lbs of force in a statistically significant way?

 

[jlh26oo]

dude, a four inch gp100 is obviously what you want. go for it.

Porting might not decrease velocity significantly (not sure exactly what the percentage is, it will vary of course with different rounds and barrel lengths), maybe a few percent. I don't know. But it'll make a flash at night, and it's louder. If you get a 4", .357's are not going to be a problem regardless.

I'd avoid porting and the triad. Fo for the ruger or a smith and WESSON.

 

[Brian Williams]

I had 2 trackers and I feel that a S&W K frame vastly outshined either one. Mine were a 357 and a 45 Colt. I found that they both had good triggers and the grips were good but snagged on my clothes during CCW. As for the Trackers being a compact frame they are the same size as a S&W K frame and a touch less clunkey(is that a word) than a Ruger. A problem with Taurus is there are very few aftermarket grips for them. Both Rugers and S&Ws have way to many aftermarket grips available. While I thought that the trackers were cheap copies of S&W they are good shooters. If I ever needed a shove it down a bears nose gun I would get me a tracker in 45 colt and load up some Wunderbear whoompers because if figure it is light weight and easy to carry and if I had to let fly with one of those Wunderbear Whoompers or all five then I would not care what remainded of the gun after I shoved it down their nose.

 

[danhei]

I have a 6" GP100 and I like it a lot. The factory grips are comfortable shooting even the hottest loads, at least for me. Mr_Moore mentioned filing the sharp points on his SP101's hammer. I did the same for the GP100's hammer. Just took off the points at the edge of the hammer. Makes cocking nicer and it's something anyone can do with a file. Mine has a heavy but smooth double action pull and it breaks nicely in single action. I've not had any trigger work done.

My understanding is that porting will make more flash and probably be quite a bit louder. I've never shot a ported gun so I don't have personal experience.

The Triad looks neat but I'd only get one if I could find it unported. If you do get one DO NOT shoot 9mm Makarov in it. It's a .365 diameter bullet. 9mm and .380 use .355 bullets and .357 uses .357 bullets.

 

[fallingblock]

The gun deities are smiling on you, Nematocyst-870...

"I'm looking now on the Ruger web site at the grips page
http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAAccFACat?group=12
but I can't sort out the "smaller grips" of which you write.
Can you point me in the right direction, please?"
*********************************************************

Be happy to.

Go to:

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=1719&return=Y

Then click on the "parts booklet" to the right of the beautiful revolver.

The grips are on the third page of the booklet.

Part# T01010 - Grip, 1 piece rubber, no inserts $7.20 is the bargain option

Part# T21010-CS - Grip, 1 piece Rubber, with Wood Inserts $23.75 is the deluxe option.



*********************************************************
"I confess, I really liked the feel, weight and balance of the GP100, and though I suspect the Taurii would be serviceable pistols, there's just something about that Ruger..."
*********************************************************


Ruger has a fine reputation for making things right if work is needed on their products.

Taurus has a lifetime warranty, but there have been some grumbles here and on other forums about their customer service.

If possible, inspect the revolver which you intend to buy.
All the manufacturers have produced a dud now and then.


*********************************************************
"My LONG awaited IRS refund check came in the mail tonight!!!!!"
*********************************************************


You see! The gun deities WANT you to buy guns.

 

[campbellcj]

Now why'd you guys have to go and tell me about that Marlin 1894C lever carbine 3 days before my birthday? I was really getting to like my S&W PC627-5 and this could be a good buddy for it.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Pistol power with leverage

campbellcj: Now why'd you guys have to go and tell me about that Marlin 1894C lever carbine 3 days before my birthday? I was really getting to like my S&W PC627-5 and this could be a good buddy for it.

Well, one of the best kept secrets in shooting is lever rifles in pistol calibers.

They are a whole buncha fun, surprisingly effective (at least to the uninitiated) at 125-150 yards or less. And are just plain nice and CHEAP to shoot.

Welcome to the dark side...

There are even "Lever Action Essays"
http://www.lneilsmith.com/lns_lever.html

 

[sigstroker]

If you're concerned about recoil, you should definitely try a .357 Magnum out before you spend dime one. Use the full power loads you would for self-defense, like 125 gr hollow points. In small and medium framed guns they kick hard.

Ports will make it much louder and the flash would probably blind you temporarily in a dark room.

Loading it with .38's is silly - you take a downgrade in power from a 9mm.

 

[AStone]

Ruger GP100: 3" v. 4" barrel

So here's a question for you revolver shooters, especially - but not entirely - for Ruger fans.

For several reasons that I need not detail here, I find myself almost equally attracted to the Ruger GP100's with 3" & 4" barrels.

Now, obviously, the 4" barrel is going to make better groups at 25 yds than the 3".

But since my objective is SD against the crazed idiot coming in my window at night (v. a rifle shooter down the street), maybe the 3" is just fine for me. It also strikes me that the 3" may have a better balance for me than the 4", and is 4.5 oz. lighter. Plus, it'll be easier to wear in a holster.

Am I missing something important? Can any of you offer advice, comments & opinions about the difference in barrels? Why should I care about one more than the other? Does the 4" really offer that much better accuracy at shorter ranges than the 3"?

Danke, gracias & thanks.

Nem

 

[jlh26oo]

Accuracy will be the same. It will be easier to shoot the 4" accurately with a longer sight radius, and better sights. But at close range you will shoot them the same probably.

I was in your position not too long ago. I eventually decided on the four inch because I was primarily using it at the range, and to leave in my glove box. Different ammo had different POI, and I am glad I went with the 4" w.adj sights. I like being able to dial it in to any type of ammo so that I can spot it exactly where I put my front sight.

But accuracy from a rest will be the same. Point and shoot at close range will be the same (actually maybe more handy with a 3"). But if were getting it to CARRY, and willing to sacrifice my adjustable sights and sight radius, I would get an SP101. It is slimmer and trimmer in ALL dimensions, and weighs less than any GP100.

I would get a 4" GP100, and just keep carrying your Kahr. It will be tough to switch from that to a GP. Less so to an SP.

No matter, whatever you pick 3" 4" gp, sp- you can't go wrong.