38 special, 2" barrel: Titegroup or HS-6?

[WayneConrad]

She Who Must Be Obeyed (aka "sweetie") has been shooting 38 special loaded with 125gr plated slugs in her Ladysmith. Now I've got some 158gr plated slugs for her to try.

The barrel is about 2" long (is that snub-nosed? Or just rather-short-nosed?).

I've got plenty of Titegroup on hand, and plenty of HS-6. Which would you pick for that short barrel?

For Titegroup, Hodgdon.com calls for a max of 3.9gr. It is the only source I found with a load for Titegroup and 158gr jacketed.

For HS-6, I found five published loads. The max for 158gr jacketed is 6.5 to 7.2, depending upon the manual.

I'm guessing Titegroup, because the comparative burn rate charts I've read claim it's faster than HS-6, and with that short barrel, perhaps there's a bit of a rush to get the powder all burnt before the bullet leaves the barrel.

On the other hand, I'm just guessing. Who knows the answer to this one?

Answers such as, "What you really want is this other powder" will be gratefully received and given full consideration. I like ball powders best, so answers that suggest any ball powder will seem to me like very smart advice.

 

[rbernie]

Titegroup is better, but it'll still be flashy and snappy. I prefer Bullseye in my Airweight snubbies.

 

[joneb]

I would use the Tightgroup over the HS-6 for a 2" .38, For my shorter barrells 2-5" I use alot of W-231 in .38, .44 and 45 acp with good results . I have not used Titegroup yet.

 

[HSMITH]

Try some Clays. Let her shoot them and she won't let you load anything else for her.

 

[NailGun]

I loaded up some 125 gr. JHP for my Smith 442, using a max. load +P of HS-6. The load showed no pressure signs, and was surprisingly accurate in my gun. This load did send a very sharp shock wave into my wrist and was unpleasant to shoot. Of course the 442 is a very light gun, and is probably affected a bit more by recoil than a Ladysmith. Load up 10 and give it a try! NailGun

Update on using a max. load +P of HS-6: When shot through my chrony, they registered higher velocities than I would like to have seen, when shot in MY gun. Granted speed is not pressure, and the mfg's published max load "should" be safe. But...... Guess that's why we "work up" loads for OUR guns.

 

[Steve C]

The load showed no pressure signs, and was surprisingly accurate in my gun.

You never will see pressure signs in a .38 spl until you are way over pressure. You can load .38's to .357 mag pressures and not see "pressure signs" and that's 90% over +P level amd 2X stamdard pressure.

 

[WayneConrad]

"Try some Clays. Let her shoot them and she won't let you load anything else for her."

HSmith, There are two ways to read that. Will she not let me load anything else for her because the Clays will be perfect? Or will the Clays be so uncomfortable to shoot that she'll never let me load anything for her again?

 

[TonyT]

For loads in short barrel revolvers I woul;s not use the slower burning powders like HS-6 etc. IYour snubbie will function best with a fast burning powder like Bullseye, Titegroup, etc.

 

[HSMITH]

Wayne, she is going to LOVE the Clays loads.

 

[WayneConrad]

HSMITH, you were right. The gentler one of us loves the Clays. But it turns out that between Sweetie and I, I'm the gentler one.

Sweetie and I just got back from the range. We shot four different 38 special loads through her Ladysmith:

Unique 6.4, P-FP 124
Titegroup 4.5-4.9, P-FP 124 (+P)
Clays 3.5-3.9, P-FP 124
Clays 2.8-3.1, P-FP 158

I very much enjoyed both of the loads that used Clays. Recoil and blast were very mild.

However, Sweetie didn't like the Clays loads. She likes recoil and blast. "Those loads with Clays made me wonder if anything came out the barrel," she said. Her favorite load was the Unique behind P-FP 124, which had blast and recoil exceeding the any of the other loads (even the max +P load). She said she could tolerate the other loads at max, but below max they were "too wimpy." Those loads with Unique were making a blast wave I could feel on my face when she shot, as though she were shooting 357 magnum rounds. Too much for me!

Well, that's the way it goes. I guess I'll load up some monster 357's for her. Maybe that will satisfy her appetite for fire and noise. But I sure like the Clays. Thanks for the tip!

 

[bakert]

The slower powder will alway give higher velocities regardless of barrel length but as far as accuracy is concerned the only to find out is by testing. I've never used Titegroup but have used HS6 in 4 and 6" barrels with good results.

 

[Scooter72]

I love 3.1grs of Tightgroup under 158gr. LSWC in .38 Special out of my 6" S&W .357 Magnum. A nice snap with very little recoil. 3" groups off hand at 50 feet.

 

[shooting on a shoestring]

Beware of ball powders

I've learned by experience with my Oheler 35P, that ball powders are very position sensitive, even Titegroup. HS-6 nd HP-38 are the worst offenders I've seen. In my .38 Mod 60 1.875", I've seen 100 fps deltas from powder at the primer to powder at the bullet. That is 700 fps with powder at the bullet and 800 fps with powder at the primer. Therefore it doesn't matter how well they meter. 700X and Bullseye are the least position sensitive. Usually less than 20 fps and in .38 with wadcutters, no measurable difference.

My Mod 60 is loaded with 148 gr wadcutters over 3.5 gr Bullseye for 792 fps and a SDEV of 14 when fired alternately muzzle up, muzzle down.

 

[HSMITH]

Good for her Wayne!! I don't like the blast for paper punching either, I am with you on Clays being the way to go. I have shot tens of thousands 38's with 2.8 Clays and a 158 LSWC, fantastic load.

Shoestring, I have seen the same wild deviations, and TiteGroup is one of the worst when you involve temperature changes. High pressure loadings with rifle primers were the only way I could get SD's down under 50, it ended up working ok in 9 amd 40, but I just don't see the need when so many other powders work better.