40 S&W: FMJ for self defense load?

[joneb]

Here's a interesting read; http://www.gunblast.com/RKCampbell_StoppingPower.htm

 

[trueblue1776]

"To try and answer the question directly, .40 S&W full metal jacket cartridges are no less, and no more, effective than 9mm or .45 acp full metal jacketed cartridges."

I will have to disagree with this statement, I learned in 7th grade, mass x velocity.....

 

[Kymasabe]

personally, I use HP's for all my self defense and carry guns. I want to create the largest, most jagged wound channel possible and I don't see that happening with FMJ. I use Federal HydroShoks in my 9mm's, Speer 135gr Gold Dots in my .38 snubs and Winchester Ranger Hp's in my .40cals...

 

[Redhat]

Silvanus,

Even though you and I choose different calibers, at least your reasoning is well thought out and I can respect that.

My reasoning on the .45 is that it stands a better chance, small though it may be, of connecting with vitals due to the increased size of the projectile. That is worth it to me.

I also agree that a hit in the RIGHT spot with either will accomplish the task.

 

[MikePGS]

Properly placed, almost any caliber will do the job. That being said one of the primary factors in stopping someone quickly is the wound channel. Obviously the bigger the bullet the bigger the wound channel there is. That being said, another factor in stopping someone quickly is the amount of energy delivered to the target. With a hollowpoint bullet the odds are better that the bullet will stay in target, thus dumping all of the energy from the projectile into the target. Thats not to say that a FMJ is going to be ineffective, but rather that a HP is more likely to stay in the target, providing that it expands properly. In regards to 9mm vs .45 acp ball, i don't know if anyone debates the fact that the .45 is more effective, providing the shooter does his job in regards to shot placement. As for .40 caliber, in my opinion (based upon objective data) this is a very effective caliber, since it pushes medium to heavy weight bullets down the barrel at significantly higher velocites than a .45, thus providing more energy in shorter barrels than many .45's do. The best .40 caliber load provides more energy than the .45, but again the wound channel isn't as large, and thus if your short placement isn't ideal the .45 might be a good resort.

 

[Claude Clay]

Mike...well said. I carry a 40 HP 3 seasons, but winter i go to 45acp ball ammo to penetrate multi-layered/heavy winter coated BG's.

 

[cj2340]

Anything made by Corbon is probably loaded as powerful as can be. You would do well to use anything by them in JHP.

 

[givo08]

I will have to disagree with this statement, I learned in 7th grade, mass x velocity.....

You must have caught the lecture on momentum then and missed the one on energy

E = (.5) mass * velocity ^2. Obviously faster rounds are generally going to have an energy advantage since v is squared while heavier rounds have a momentum advantage...

 

[MikePGS]

I just wanted to add a bit to my previous post. I meant to specify that in 4 inch or so barrels the .40 caliber seems to exceed the amount of energy that a .45 will generate, but with a five inch barrel (in particular with +P ammunition) the .45 surpasses the .40 caliber in a lot of cases (Based on the stats from the Guns and Ammo buyers guide tables). Either way, either gun should be more than sufficient, provided that you do your job

 

[Silvanus]

Hey Redhat,

I'm glad I made my point without sounding like a know-it-all kind of guy
I realize that the caliber and platform one choses is always a personal matter and there is no real point in imposing your choice upon others.

 

[Walkalong]

Energy is not everything. It has to be transferred to the target as well. I like a large frontal area myself. I like the .45. These days there are HP's that do quite well through clothing also. The .40 is also a good choice and is a great round, I just like the .45 better.

Now, with that said. If you do not shoot the .45 well, you will be better served with a .40. If you don't shoot either one of those well, you will be better served with a 9MM. Some who dislike shooting the .40 love the .45 etc.

Shot placement is paramount. Caliber is secondary. I want the biggest frontal area I can deliver effectively. For me, it is the .45 ACP. Now, in revolvers... .44 Spl. is hard to beat as well.

 

[cookekdjr]

I bet evan marshall has some data collected about this topic at stoppingpower.net. It would be worth checking out.
From my personal experience, I have investigated and prosecuted a number of shootings involving .40 S&W. FMJ and jhp performed the same. Both performed very very well.
-David

 

[SkiLune]

Had this very debate with my instructor, and neither one of us changed our opinions, though he IS the instructor so perhaps I will come around to his way of thinking over time.

He is a 1911, .45 cal guy, and nothing will convince him that any other gun compares. He carries his Wilson Combat, with two extra 8 round mags.

I own a 9mm with a 17 round mag, and a .40 with a 12 round mag. I can now punch holes in about a six inch group from 15 yards with the 9-- nothing spectacular, I know, but I'm getting better.

With the .40, my accuracy is a little worse -- still getting used to the kick as I only recently purchased this gun. So, for now, the 9 is my go to gun at home. I think 17 rounds without changing mags is an equalizer. If I can get my groupings better, I may switch to the .40 which is a compact model and carries very nicely.

 

[dhomoney]

<quote>Not to start a war, but in my opinion, 45 ball is alot more effective than 9mm ball. If I had to choose one for personal defense, I'd go with the 45 fmj.</quote>

This is without a doubt true from the reports coming out of Iraq and other places. Definitely a bigger round is preferred, especially with hardball.

 

[WeThePeople]

Although one round might cause more tissue damage than another similarly placed round, even a .22 can produce the desired effects.

Some time ago now, a gentleman in Louisville, KY bagged an armed bank robber who ran at him with a gun in one hand and a bag of cash in the other.

You know what he used? His .22 pocket pistol with a carefully placed shot.

I think that he received some sort of award from the police department.

My opinion, practice often and carry what you like to shoot.

 

[makarovnik]

Some guns feed FMJ better than hollowpoints. Reliability is more important than expansion. If you're using a slow bullet, say under 1000 FPS, I'm not sure I believe those bullets will expand reliably in human flesh. That being said, if your .40 S&W feeds hollowoints reliably, that's what I would use.

 

[Feanaro]

Energy is not everything.

Yep. The energy has to do some damage instead of, say, becoming sound or heat.

I will have to disagree with this statement, I learned in 7th grade, mass x velocity.....

Equals momentum, which pistol rounds have a pathetic amount of.

 

[[email protected]]

Simple Answer!

The FEDERAL 165 GRAIN HYDRO-SHOCK>>>> There is a reason that this is a nationally POLICE ISSUED AMMO.


What has the 1911 got to do with this question????

 

[possum]

I know .45 ACP FMJ ammo gets the nod as a viable self defense load, but how about in .40 S&W?

i never advise that people use fmj as a defense rd. sure it will work but so will beating some one with a ball bat. the problem is over penetraition, think about the target and what is behind it which is a basic gun handling rule, in your home but especially out on the street where others are in abundance. you want a rd that will penetrate enough to end the engagement and expand inside the target but not leave the target.

 

[strangelittleman]

While any type/caliber of round can be pressed into a self-defense role, I'm always concerned about what is beyond my intended tgt. Think of the places one is most likely to get into a self-defense shooting....(while in a parking lot, entering/exiting one's car, inside one's home w/only a few layers of sheetrock between you & your loved ones, etc.)
I personally don't want my round(s) passing through the oppo and striking some child, family member, or other non-involved. That would be devastating on so many levels. It's for this reason that I use lightly constructed hollowpoints in my off-duty sidearm. Just my opinion....

 

[Deanimator]

I stick with hollowpoints for self-defense. Walmart usually has Winchester hollowpoints of some kind for a reasonable price. In fact, their 9x19mm 147gr. JHPs are excellent. I don't recall if they have a similar bargain .40S&W, but I think they do.

 

[.45&TKD]

I think this is a good question, because in a true SHTF situation, the first ammunition you will run out of is HP's.

That's one reason that my go to gun is a .45 acp.
(I do have a couple of .40's for cost effective additional quantity).

 

[rcmodel]

I think 17 rounds without changing mags is an equalizer.

Only if you subscribe to the "Spray & Pray" school of gunfighting!


rcmodel

 

[cookekdjr]

Well, I've been to alot of autopsies and I've never seen a handgun hp bullet expand from contact with human tissues. Ever. I'm sure it happens, I've just never seen it. I just carry jhp's b/c the ones I choose have low-flash powders and higher velocity.
RE: effectiveness of .40 fmj, it is very effective. No different performance than the jhp's. I have seen many, many corpses that died from a fmj .40 bullet. JME, YMMV.

 

[seeker_two]

This is simple. Whic one makes a bigger hole? 45ACP, agree?

In diameter, yes.....but in depth of penetration, 9mm FMJ is usually the winner....


Don't settle for less....use a .454 Casul, and you get both....