.416 Ruger

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One undeserved reputation Keith had to put up with was of being a proponent of "maximum" loads. He very pointedly claimed that maximum loads were foolish and counterproductive, and repeatedly asked manufacturers to turn down the power on many cartridges, the .44 magnum included. And IIRC, he wrote that the handloader flirting with maximum loads was akin to a teenage boy with his foot in the carburetor, trying to see how fast it will go.
Both are candidates for a hospital berth, I think is how he put it.

FWIW!
 
I need a .416 Ruger...

...like I need another hole in my head.
:D

I understand some of the concepts behind the .416 Ruger: You can use a shorter action than the big Rigby, you don't need a belted case, etc. But I agree that this cartridge is sort of an unnecessary development on the part of Ruger.

One thing that I would have liked to see, instead of another bolt-rifle .416, is the commercial development of a lever-action cartridge in this caliber. (Hello, Marlin.)
 
So when does need or neccesity have anything to do with all these different cartridges? Since we already have the .30-06, we don't "need" anything else--at least on this continent. But that doesn't affect want and use and play with! How many of you have more than 1 rifle? No way you can convince me you need more than 1. But I, like most of you, have a couple of dozen. For fun and play and enjoyment and, heaven forbid, want. So another "unneeded" cartridge comes along. You don't want one? Then don't buy one, but don't criticize the guy who does want one or the company that chose to make it because they thought that maybeso there were some guys out there that wanted one. Does it really harm you or hurt that someone might want a .416 RCM, or anything else that they don't "need"? I doubt that I'll get a .416 Ruger, but I sure won't throw rocks at the guy who does get one. In fact, if he'll let me, you can bet I'll take a few shots with it. Probably more than that if he'll let me! Incidently, as fine a cartridge as the .416 Rigby is, it's length in particular makes it quite problematic to find actions (bolt) that it will fit in, certainly kind of a strike against it.
 
The .416 Ruger in Ruger's controlled round feed rifles, should be a very reliable package. With massive power to boot.

AFY, yes, I would and will benchrest a .416, because I'm crazy like that. I've already told my friend to order me one, the minute they come available.
 
Tang.. good for you... woiuld love to see results.

Should be fun...
 
It will be fun. Enjoyable, I doubt. But all the big boomers are fun, and I've never got to shoot anything bigger than a .375 H&H.

The Barnes 300gr TSX for the .416's, should be good for reduced loads, and light duty hunting.
 
Tang419:

AFY, yes, I would and will benchrest a .416, because I'm crazy like that.
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You can benchrest shoot a 6mm, or a 700 Nitro Express. It's only a position. Producing accurate results from the bench with the big rifles is a whole different ballgame, though. The inherent effects of rifle recoil travel before the bullet leaves the muzzle in a highly recoiling gun make such guns a poor choice for any "benchrest" type accuracy. They require a perfect balance and hold.

I can't find .416 Ruger brass anywhere, but I did find .375 Ruger which you can fireform to .416. It is cheaper by a good amount over .416 Rigby, so that's a benefit. But, why again do you want a smaller case to feed your "recoil addiction"? Recoil addiction calls for bigger cases with higher powder capacities! :evil: In that case, I would be taking the 375RUM case to .416 for a wildcat. Get it in a Savage bolt rifle, bore the barrel, and you have one cheap monster cartridge with cheap brass. :evil: :evil: :evil:

I must talk about this earlier quote:

Earlthegoat2:

17HMR=22Mag
17M2=22LR
Click to expand...

Two of the poorest comparisons I've ever seen made! Well, actually the first one more so. I am getting 1.5-2" groups at 280 yards with the 17HMR in little wind. I would love to see a 22Mag do that without tumbling!!!
 
A .416 RUM would be one helluva thumper.

I do love my Savage rifle, but I also love my M77 MkII. The 20" Alaskan version are just sexy to me. I have a 3-9x40 Leupold waiting to go on it, but ofcourse that's prolly too much zoom and too little eye relief.
 
Moosehunt I could not have said it better. I hate belted cases and would gladly buy one of the ruger-hornady rounds. Guy's that complain about more gun's and different rounds make me laugh. Hell you should be happy about it, I know I am.
 
Just get a .416 ridgby then. This ammo will cost more than any other ammo, trust me, and does not really give you much benifit, on BG rifles, you usually let the rifle down before cycling the bolt. So the shorter action does pratically nothing.
 
The .416 Rigby in factory-ammo guise is quite a different puppy from the same round, handloaded. At least, it CAN be different.

My own .416 Rigby happens to be a Ruger #1H, and it will deliver a 300-grain X-bullet at 3000 fps, chronographed and consistently. However, it's flat-out miserable on the back end, and unless the elk start growing armor-plate, I don't need such ballistic performance. Same applies to the 400-grain bullets, which easily reach 2600+ in my rifle.

In a handloader's rifle, the .416 Rigby is a .416 Weatherby, or VERY close to it. This is logical, since Roy based his .416 on the Rigby case. Use caution as loads are increased, as always.

I also own a post-WWII .404 Jeffery on the standard '98 Mauser action, and it's not difficult to exceed 2400 fps with 400 grains in this one, either. (Factory .404-400s ran at 2150 fps.) Remington .375 Ultramag brass makes perfect .404 cases at a fraction of the cost of Norma- or RWS-made cases.

Whatever the differences among these various .416s (and .404s), it's safe to say that ALL will deliver more horsepower than logically "needed" in North America. So, what does "need" have to do with it???? If any shooter wants to mess with the .416 in any flavor, more power to him ...literally.

It happens that my two rifles fire rounds designed around 1910, but the fact that NEW cartridges are coming out which essentially duplicate the performance of 100 years ago simply means that those long-gone designers had things right. Current designs are fine-tuning the basic package of .416/400/2400, but oh my, does the "basic package" ever WORK.

As a dedicated bullet-caster, I must add a plug for that part of the hobby....the plus-.40 calibers offer wonderful performance with cast loads, and often deliver "accuracy loads" much easier than will smaller diameters. The RCBS 416-350 mould is readily available, and does great work in my .416. At 2000 fps, it's a viable 200-yard proposition for hunting. Earlier this year, I was shooting my cast hunting load of RCBS .416-350/2000 fps on the same day I was firing some .223 trial loads (with jacketed bullets) from an Interarms Mini-Mauser...and the .416 shot TEN-shot 100-yard groups SMALLER than the .223! That is, just under 7/8" for the .416, and right at 1" for the lightweight .223. I will admit that there was a slight difference in how the two rifles felt on the benchrest, however....
 
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Bruce, I've been using the 416-350FN with your load of 34 grains of 2400 with Dacron filler. It is more accurate than I can hold with "dangerous game" sights and is giving me about 1650 FPS. It's also allowed me to enjoy a gun that I'd really started to dislike!
 
BruceB--How well does the .404 Jeff work in the 98 action? I would think that the action would be way too short. I want a .404 Jeff bad (of course, no need), and have been holding out for a Pre-64 M70 .375 H&H or .300 H&H action--obviously a pricy route. If I get a .375 at semi-reasonable cost, I will have the barrel rebored. I can't see how a .404 Jeff can work in a standard 98 action, but if you have positive results, I'm all ears! I, too, am from/in Nevada.
 
i gotta agree with earlthegoat2. i am no fan of any of the "NEW AND IMPROVED" cartridges, that do a tiny bit better with slightly less, and a slightly shorter, blah,blah, blah. wake me up when they turn 4000 fps out of a 300rcm, or ssm with 50 grains of imr4831 and a 180 grain bullet. unless they can miraculously come up with a way to "supercharge" one of their latest and greatest", dont bother me with a shorter stroke, or 200 fps faster, or some other tidbit of who-hah that they make up to try to sell a rifle. in the real hunting world, 200 fps difference from the muzzle isnt going to mean squat to a deer or elk @ 150 yards.
 
A) It doesn't matter what it does so much, it's what people enjoy and have happiness with.
B) A lot of people hunt more than deer & elk.

We'll leave you asleep and yawning while we go off and have fun and enjoy the world!
 
I think I'll hold out for a 458 Ruger they got to have one on the drawing board. I love the 458. I have a Marlin 1895 GS in 45-70 and a Interarms Mark X in 458 win mag. And yes I am a recoil freak.
 
BruceB--How well does the .404 Jeff work in the 98 action? I would think that the action would be way too short. I want a .404 Jeff bad (of course, no need), and have been holding out for a Pre-64 M70 .375 H&H or .300 H&H action--obviously a pricy route. If I get a .375 at semi-reasonable cost, I will have the barrel rebored. I can't see how a .404 Jeff can work in a standard 98 action, but if you have positive results, I'm all ears! I, too, am from/in Nevada.
Click to expand...

Most modern gunsmiths will tell you that the standard action is neither strong enough nor large enough to accommodate cartridges like the .404 Jeffery and .416 Rigby. Back in the day, gunsmiths didn't "know" nearly so much, so went right ahead and did it. Harry Selby's famous .416 is one such gun, and it seems to have held up okay. In point of fact, I have never heard of a single instance of such guns coming apart, although if I owned one I would not load it beyond traditional specifications -- which, BTW, have always done the job.

As far as I know, the only significant modification required for the standard action to house these cartridges is a bit of relief on the forward part of the loading port so as to allow unhindered ejection.
 
Enough gun

I run 350 grain cast lead out of my Ruger No1 in 416 Rigby for boars and scrub bulls. For Buffalo I load Woodliegh or Barnes 350 grainers with 100 grains of reloader 19. A pair of recoil reducers and a quality recoil pad allow me shoot it off the bench without problems.
 
The .404 I own was made by Cogswell and Harrison in London, England, and is a relatively-plain "working rifle". It wouldn't surprise me to find that this is a rifle built to serve rangers in one of the African game departments. The .404 was very commonly used by such organizations.

It certainly appears to be a military '98 action, although ALL markings have been removed. The thumb-slot for charger-loading is there, as well as the original 2-stage trigger and 180-degree wing safety on the shroud. It's still a pretty neat rifle, having three-leaf express sights with ivory inlay, a very nicely-figured piece of walnut, and a straight-taper 21" barrel.

Many '98s have been successfully used with long cartridges such as the .404 and .375 H&H. A new mag box is fitted, extended somewhat to the rear of the original box, as well as to the front. The bottom locking-lug abutment is shortened a bit to allow the extra length at the front. This appears to have no effect on the strength or functioning of the action. My rifle functions so smoothly that it's difficult to tell if there really was a cartridge in the action!

Even Browning used FN-made '98s for the .375 H&H for a while, adapted as above.

I have fired some very ambitious loads in the rifle, but since we are now out of the Wood Bison-hunting campaigns for which I bought it, it sees more cast-bullet loads than anything. My bison load was a Barnes Original 400-grain bullet with the .049"-thick tubing jacket. Running at 2400 fps, no bison ever complained about its effectiveness. The rifle only weighs a tad over eight pounds, so it's VERY lively in recoil.

The cast bullet is from the NEI 421-390 mould, and in my alloy it's a near-perfect duplicate of the factory-load bullet in both weight and shape. It casts at 398 grains, and can readily be pushed to 2150, which is the original factory speed for that weight.

C&H knew what they were about. They built a tough, light, powerful rifle with everything that's needed in the bush, and no frills to complicate things. The bolt handle is adapted to scopes, but the action was not drilled and tapped. I shot a BIG bull right through the heart from 200 yards using the 200-yard leaf sight....I think C&H really had a handle on what was needed.
 
As Bruce has said, Gogswell & Harrison as well as many other British gun makers built the 404 jeffery & 375H&H on std Mauser actions. The 404 was for many years the favoured rifle for many African Game depts. This equates to hundreds if not thousands of rifles, if there was a problem we'd for sure know of it by now.;)
On other forums I've read of good things for the Speer 350gr Magtip as a relatively budget .416 Cal bullet. reports from Africa have it a goiod for eveything other than Dangerous game, & by that I would take to mean Buffalo, Hippo etc which obviously need a premium bullet. Eles are obviously FMJ/Solid territory. The 350 Speer would probably do for the big cats too & everthing in North America.
Steve
 
Never questioned the M98 action as being strong enough, only a length thing. I'll have to try and find info on how to make the necessary alterations of a standard M98 action to work with the long .404 Jeff round. Know a source? Are there sources for the extended magazine? Was it 100% custom to extend the magazine, i.e., yes the machine work must be custom, but is there a mag available that one can use to measure to do the machine work, or all custom, mag included. I can't afford a C&H (if I could find one), but I likely can build it if I can find specs, info, etc.
Thanks!!
 
A mate of mine has a 404 like BruceB, but the recoil is more than I like, in fact makes my 416 Rigby a pussy to shoot. Still as Bruce says its a well thought out work gun.
 
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