.44 Special vs. .45 ACP

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Sam1911 said:
Yes! Just as good, if not better. A bit better sectional density, so a bit more penetration. Also a bit more velocity so a bit more penetration.

Not enough to worry about, either way.

Yes. (Same weight, more velocity = more recoil.)

A little tiny bit.
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How is that if the .44 spec is .43 caliber and the .45 ACP is .452 caliber? I guess two hundredths of an inch doesn't make that big a difference especially when the .43 bullet is going almost 200 fps faster and is the same or heavier, right? Actually, the other posts seem to prove this.
 
To add to it, lets see the difference from slower speeds:
Wound channel diameter of 0.904" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .452", and a striking velocity of 800 fps.
Wound channel diameter of 0.791" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .452", and a striking velocity of 700 fps.
Wound channel diameter of 0.751" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .429", and a striking velocity of 700 fps.
How about .357?
Wound channel diameter of 0.803" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .357", and a striking velocity of 900 fps.
Wound channel diameter of 0.893" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .357", and a striking velocity of 1000 fps.
Wound channel diameter of 0.982" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .357", and a striking velocity of 1100 fps.
Wound channel diameter of 1.205" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .357", and a striking velocity of 1350 fps.
 
I'm having fun doing this so indulge me a bit;)
Let's see what the .510" look like?
Wound channel diameter of 1.721" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .510", and a striking velocity of 1350 fps.
Wound channel diameter of 1.403" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .510", and a striking velocity of 1100 fps.
Wound channel diameter of 1.211" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .510", and a striking velocity of 950 fps.

Here is the result of a .500" caliber, 440 grain LFN at 950 FPS, on the offside of the animal:
440grainHardcastat950fps500JRH300wincartridgeforcomparision.gif

I think to really increase your power from these two cartridges, the .44 Special, and the .45 ACP/Super it helps to increase bore diameter a bit more then people think.

There also seems to be some corelation between bullet effectiveness as bullet weight goes up. It seems that a 420-525 grain bullet, in .475 to .510"
even at sedate 900-1100 fps blows a big hole through the animal, and keeps on going, or not. Buffalo skin makes an excellent bullet catcher.

It's almost as if there is a geometric increase in effect as caliber and bullet weight goes up. The increase in damage is not easily explained, but, it's there.

Perhaps the same can be said of using the .44's and .45's from the .38's?
 
How is that if the .44 spec is .43 caliber and the .45 ACP is .452 caliber? I guess two hundredths of an inch doesn't make that big a difference especially when the .43 bullet is going almost 200 fps faster and is the same or heavier, right? Actually, the other posts seem to prove this.
Click to expand...
How is that? How is what? I don't understand the question.

But when you say, 0.02" doesn't make that much difference, you sure got that right! :)

When discussing bullets of the same weight, within 0.02" of each other, traveling at within around 100 fps of each other, the practical effects on living tissue will be pretty darned similar.

IF somehow, you could shoot the exact same animal at exactly the same range, distance, and angle, with the two rounds and hold every other possible variable exactly the same, you'd be likely to see that death occurs predictably 0.05 seconds sooner with one than the other. However, I'm not sure which would be faster. ... ;)

I might as well say it before someone else does... shot placement will have FAR more to do with the lethality of either round than will the terminal ballistics differences between the two.
 
The very first response nailed it, rcmodel, but if you handload and get a .44mag or .44spcl. AND have it set up for moon clips, well, that would be the most power you could get and be very fast on the reloads. There's a guy online, forget who, does it to most revolvers, looks like good work and he's popular (someone on here will know who).

I just saw a new 329 .44mag snub "Backpacker". Scandium with stainless cylinder, .44mag. Nice and light, but the cylinder will hold up with heavier loads better than the titanium cylinders (trust me on this) and unlike the 329PD, this one has a much shorter barrel, like 2.5" or something like that? You could carry it, and it would be one beast for SD.

In the "Dirty Harry" movies, Harry tells the motorcycle cops when asked what loads he used, that he used specials in a magnum revolver to increase control, faster followups, and reduced recoil. And it does make sense... If you go rimmed, .44, go magnum unless you don't want the large frame. If you handload, heavy bullet, near minimum charge mags are the bees knees.
 
Yeah, TK Custom will mill cyliders for moon clips. I wouldn't bother though. The way they work with rimless cartridges like .45ACP, .40, 9mm, etc. is pretty positive. Short stubby cartridges in a nice thick moon clip load pretty quick. Longer cartridges in a thin and flexy little moon clip like have to be used with rimmed cartridges lose a lot of the appeal.
 
Boys, thank you very much!


My next gun: Smith and Wesson 629 4"!

I figure this loaded with some good high end .44 Specials would be a powerful, reliable, accurate package with quite mild recoil. I'm all about fast follow up shots. Plus I can use it for hunting with .44 Mag!



Again, thank yall!
 
This discussion reminds me of phrase . . . somethng about angels on head of a pin..........
 
Prosser,

I'm curious, why are your calculations based on a meplat diameter the same as the bullet diameter? That's called a wadcutter, and I know of no one who hunts with wadcutters.

Don
 
I use Aguila IQ 117 GR 45 acp 1450 fps rounds ( still have around 65) love my 44 mag with spc. for home but I think with the aquila rounds the 45 is best. I just don't know where to get them anymore.
 
Let's look at an apples to apples comparison. Out of a vented revolver with the same barrel length the .45ACP will give velocities very similar the .44 Special with the same bullet weight. My pet load for both the 230 grain .45 and the 240 grain .44 Special both use 6 grains of Unique. When fired out of five inch barreled revolvers there is not a dimes worth of difference between them. The velocity advantage the .45ACP has in published data comes from the fact that it is usually fired from a non-vented 5" 1911 and the .44 Special is fired from a 3" Charter Arms revolver.
 
USSR:
Your right, but this isn't about hunting. Jim Cirillo and Tim Sundles think that a full caliber wadcutter is an excellent self-defense round:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=283

200 grains, non-expanding, at between 1200-1300 fps?

Hmmm, wish I would have thought of that...:rolleyes:

I'm willing to dance on the head of the pin, but at a certain point,
time figures in. So yes, the diameter holes would be a bit optimistic, but, not by much.

If you want to search for bullets and meplat diameters, and redo the figures, feel free. That is another factor in the equation, what bullet choices are available for each caliber.

Most are using LFN's with meplat diameter at around 70-80% of caliber.

I think the stuff I ran is valid enough for a relative comparison of the two calibers.
 
That's called a wadcutter, and I know of no one who hunts with wadcutters.
Click to expand...
Perhaps not so much anymore, but back in the middle of the century heavy hard-cast wadcutters were recognized as seriously lethal on game.

Look at the whole concept of the Keith bullet.
 
To be honest I'm not sure why Speer even lists it as .44 Magnum. Marketing I guess
Click to expand...
No it's because those are 44 magnum loadings in 44 magnumm cases which are .1" longer also eventhough they are loaded light for 44mag they are well over the safe pressure for a 44 special.
I think the stuff I ran is valid enough for a relative comparison of the two calibers.
Click to expand...
I supose they're ok if the bullets are just hitting bovine fecies. The real world doesn't always follow calculations.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps not so much anymore, but back in the middle of the century heavy hard-cast wadcutters were recognized as seriously lethal on game.

Look at the whole concept of the Keith bullet.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there was a lot of experimentation going on in the early 20th century, and E.K. was one of the best, but a SWC is not a wadcutter. Since wadcutters in this day and age are almost exclusively confined to the .38 Special, that is why I questioned the data being for wadcutters in calibers other than .357".

Don
 
but a SWC is not a wadcutter.
Click to expand...
Ok, point taken. However, a long wadcutter with a large flat meplat and equivalent weight to a similar SWC should do a better job on the animal than the SWC design, I beleive.
 
Sam,

Agree. However, I believe E.K. was looking not only at terminal performance, but rather a combination of terminal performance and long range accuracy, something that a full wadcutter falls flat on.

Don
 
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/03fn.html

Pretty close to full caliber, and excellent hunting bullets.

Another wide nose LFN with a great rep:

http://www.beltmountain.com/punch.htm

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/barnes®-buster™-bullets/

Point is a number of bullet makers have great success with near full caliber
LFN's.

I've shot a .500" Punch Bullet out of a .500JRH into the ground, and dug it out. You could reload it.

But, that said, for comparing the calibers it was easier to use the full caliber then try and figure out what the meplat diameter is on the widest available
Self-Defense bullet.

BluedRevolver:
Congratulations, you made a great choice. When I went to .45's, I always felt that I would have been just as well off going to the .44's, but, then I wouldn't have been able to use cheap, 230 cast bullets in both autos and revolvers for practice.
 
GREAT looking bullet. How hard did you cast it, and how fast was it going?
Is the one on the right from a deer, or shot into the ground?
 
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