440C knives and riverwater water.

[20nickels]

I'm looking at a 440C knife. Will the edge hold up to river rafting for days on end or should I go with S30V. I realize not all stainless is created equal. Tks
Corrosion is my concern.

 

[Matthaios]

It should be fine.

If you're really worried, you can a table of a custom knife maker's personal assessment of the steels here: http://jayfisher.com/Blades.htm#What_are_the_steels_you_use,_Jay,_and_why

He claims that the corrosion resistance of 440C is "Excellent" whereas CPMS30V is "Very Good". However, I'm guessing this also has to do with what kind of finish is applied to your knife, too (http://jayfisher.com/Blades.htm#What_about_ultimate_corrosion_resistance).

 

[hso]

I guided whitewater and never found any damage to a knife just attached to my PFD (even kayaking).

What do you think you'll be doing with the knife to dull it?

 

[20nickels]

Tks, Matt

"What do you think you'll be doing with the knife to dull it?"
Hopefully nothing. The edge is the only place I'm really concerned about corrosion, everwhere else is secondary.
I'm ordering a HAK V2 as we speak.

 

[20nickels]

Amended original post to include corrosion concerns.

 

[sixgunner455]

420 or 440 should have no problems with corrosion. 440C, properly heat treated, will likely have better edge retention than any of the 420 steels. S30V may have better edge retention than 440C, but I'm not convinced that it will in all applications, and variables in the heat treat will have more impact between those two steels than between either of them and the 420 series. Both will take and hold a good edge.

I've seen a bit of corrosion on my one S30V blade, but it didn't progress, just discolored the surface.

 

[Dismantler]

Also remember...before there was stainless, there were adventurers all over the globe using carbon steel. Today many still carry Randall's and other high quality carbon steels into the wilderness, lakes and rivers included.

I bought a 7" long Case butcher knife at a flea market for two bucks. I put a maple handle on it. If that was all that I had to carry into the wilderness (like an old-time mountain man) I would not feel too sorry for myself.

 

[armored_pig]

440 vs 440c are completely different animals--440c is similar in hardness to AUS8a which is pretty decent.

S30V is a little better, but 440c is great nonetheless

 

[20nickels]

I went with the 440C, mainly because my corrosion concerns were alleviated ( I have a buy once philosophy) and it was 40% of the price of the S30V model. Also it seems from reading that they are easier to sharpen which is a concern of mine being a noob to that. After I read into it, I realized that although S30V was good stuff, you get bang for your buck at less than 1/2 the price with 440C.

 

[hso]

What knife did you buy in 440C?

Where will you be boating? I kayaked and raft guided all over SE Appalachia, from WVA to NGA. (I did not guide in WVA)

 

[ktd]

Any of the knives made for river work should be pretty corrosion resistant whatever steel they use. Typically I have only found a real issue if you are in the ocean, otherwise a wipedown after each dunking works fine. Though corrosion resistance usually means harder to keep an edge.

My observation however, is that vest knives often get lost (mine is lashed down pretty well), and when you do need them in an emergency, you often have to ditch it because returning it the sheath can be too dangerous. Thus, my river knives are not too expensive. As long as it can cut rope (ie, has a reverse belly and/or serrations), it is sharp enough. I keep a "real" knife in my kit for regular cutting tasks.

 

[20nickels]

I bought a Hideaway Knife "HAK Utility V2".
http://www.hideawayknife.com/main.php
I've been drooling over one of these in one form or another for 3 yrs now. The company went through some rough times for awhile there and as far as I can tell is back on it's feet and churning out blades. Last I heard Ken Brock was overseeing some part of the operation there.
KTD,
If I have to ditch this one I'm in trouble because it literally fits two of your fingers like a ring once unsheathed. Retention and packability are it's strongpoints.

Hso,
I canoe or kayak Northern Nebraska riding Black Hill's spring water and also use tubes (truck tires) very often in milder rivers, in this case the knife would be submerged 100% of the trip.

 

[Pilot]

I have a Benchmade 551 Griptilian with a 440C blade that has served me well. They switched to 154CM in the Grip now, which I prefer, but nothing wrong with 440C.

 

[highorder]

FWIW, I use a large Benchmade Ascent in ATS-34 (black teflon, half serrated) for all my canoe and kyak needs.

It sports a nice lanyard and works well with no corrosion issues.

 

[The Tourist]

If your knife has grips that are removeable, be sure to clean underneath them.

 

[hso]

I'd be very reluctant to use something that pointy on the river as an emergency knife.

Good luck.

 

[sm]

I'd be very reluctant to use something that pointy on the river as an emergency knife.

A number of folks that work on water, from barges to river guides, to fishing guides , used to wear a British Army Issue knife, around their neck, or attached to a lanyard in their pocket, even had some tied to a canoe, kayak or jonboat.

I forget the exact name, and what kind of stainless steel.

This was the simple Sheepsfoot/ Lambsfoot main blade with the Marlin Spike.

--
Another knife very popular knife , is A.G. Russell's WoodWalker, using the neck sheath.

We have lots of lakes, river and streams, some with dams that signal a siren when the gates are being opened , and the water is going to rise down stream.

These knives are some of the proven knives for serious on the water folks.

It does not take much of a knife to clean and cook fresh caught fish on the shore, many use a simple folding pocket knife, like a Stockman, or Trapper or Sodbuster.
Some have a Rapela.

Try sharpening a pencil in a moving vehicle sometime.

SAK Pruner, or Gardener, is a inexpensive lambsfoot/sheepsfoot folding knife that is proven on water...
Nice back up , and spare knife.
Safer to use in a moving environment.

SAK Solo is another one, and it too is worn about the neck, or lanyard secured in a pocket.
It has the spear point.

 

[20nickels]

A 154CM lockback has been my companion for years on and off the water. On river trips rust has never been an issue and it clips quite securely in my beltline or upside down in the leg of my wetsuit above the knees (spring water gets cold!). The HAK has it's work cut out if it is to replace this blade, but time will tell.
There is also many times I've gone without a tool and ended up needing one. Other people use it more than I do. If I don't have one they look at me like "what were you thinking?" even though they don't have one themselves.
It's rare that I will do any cutting on a moving raft. Usually it's at a stop and involves rope or opening a vaccuum packed snack.

 

[dagger dog]

I carried a Spyderco Rescue folder 440 serrated in my PFD for years, would stow the wet PFD along with my spray skirt stuffed into the cockpit of my kayak and throw on the cover, let it bake on the top of the car, or in February, when the creeks got up freeze . The thing will still cut through a cokpit coaming ,PFD strap or any size Spectra, line with ease never beeen sharpened, and all it ever got out of this ordeal for 15+ years is a little stain on one side of the blade!

 

[brigadier]

High polish will amplify the metals corrosion resistance.

 

[JShirley]

I realize you've already bought a knife. Others looking for a river knife might want to consider something like the Spyderco H1 (completely nonrusting)Saver Salt.

John

 

[hso]

My perspective on what a "river knife" is comes from whitewater where the knife is an emergency rescue tool. It isn't used for fish or food. It's purpose is to cut line in whitewater to save a boater from penning/drowning. With that limiting definition out of the way, I am adamantly opposed to a whitewater rescue knife having a sharp point.

When I started boating I carried a pointy whitewater knife. So did my wife when she started. After a couple of years being wet and blue we replaced them with non-pointy blades because we saw the potential for that pointy tip ending up in warm flesh at the wrong time and place. A couple of years after that a well meaning boater inadvertently put the pointy tip of his whitewater knife into the femoral artery of a buddy of mine while trying to help with a rescue. My friend didn't survive.

Nope, no pointy knives on my PFD for me.

 

[Mike Sastre]

My "river knife" perspective is the same as HSO's, however my personal rescue knives have points - Spyderco Merlin, Tasman, or SpyderHawk - but my choice is based on MY individual experience, needs, and level of expertise (over 20 years kayaking and several incidents). That said, a non pointy blade is probably best for the casual boater. Whatever your choice, it should have a serrated blade (think rope, webbing, etc.) and be located for quick access in an emergency (time is your enemy). Many guides and rescue professionals use the Spyderco Rescue, Rescue Jr, or the corresponding Atlantic Salt and Saver Salt in H1 steel (rustproof as opposed to stain-less). Folders allow you to carry an effective blade length in a compact package that does not interfere with any movements you need to make. I originally got into making sheaths so I could have a readily available rescue knife that was on my PFD, that would still be there even after a Class V swim. Most PFDs have a lash tab for attaching rescue knives, but I prefer putting mine on the chest adjustment webbing on the side of the vest. This keeps it out of the way, but instantly available. Here's a couple pictures.

 

[hso]

I carry one of Mike's rigs on the chest with a Spyderco Rescue. I'm a lot) bigger around than he is so I have to keep the thing closer to the mid-line than he does.

I also mount the thing in the same place on my BC when I SCUBA so that I'm reaching for the same place regardless of where I'm being wet.

 

[sixgunner455]

I have one of those Spyderco Rescues. It's old, AUS8 steel. I've never really even used it -- I was on a clean up assignment at a barracks we'd been staying in for a few months and were moving out of, and it got swept out from under one of the racks.

Been thinking about giving it away, but now I can actually see a use for it due to hso's discussion above. Thanks!