.455 the "Manstopper!"

[el Godfather]

Dear THR
I want to hear from the folks who are familiar with the .455. I want to know how were they when they came out in Webly & Scott and where does this caliber stand today.
In fact, is it a sufficiant SD caliber and size game can it take?

After all it was called the man stopper at one time? BTW why was it called that?

Thanks

 

[threoh8]

"Manstopper" was a name applied to some heavy wadcutter and hollow-cavity wadcutter loads for the .455 Webley, intended for personal defense.



They came from the "large diameter, heavy bullet, lots of momentum, maximum transfer" school of thought on taking the fight out of one's opponent. IOW, pumpkin rollers with sharp edges.

 

[Quat]

It appeared in the mk i format very early 1890s, I believe and went through various other mk's as time passed. They were quite different from the original, the case was shortened from mk II on. I believe the other mk changes were to the bullet or powder charge, rather than the case, but I could be mistaken. (outside of the 455 auto).

Its roughly equivalent or a little behind old 45 colt/45 acp loadings. A 220-265 grain bullet between 600 and 700fps, depending on where it was intended to be fired from. The auto round was faster.

I believe the "manstopper" referred not to the cartridge itself, but a scooped out wadcutter type bullet/loading that was available for a while, which would expand when striking a target. I don't know if it earned that name or that is what it was called off the bat.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I once swaged some in .44 Special. The trick is that the bullet must be cupped on both ends or it will become tail heavy and tumble. Anyone who has ever tried to turn hollow base .38 wadcutters backwards knows this. They keyhole. Mine worked well and expand at low velocity but full bore cylinderical bullets are difficult to use with a speed loaders or moon clips.

 

[Jaymo]

I read an article in a 1070s Gun Digest or G&A annual (don't remember which) where the author loaded "upside down" HBWC bullets. In order to get them to not tumble/keyhole, he ended up swaging a buckshot pellet in the cavity.
I read it over 30 years ago. It was one of my dad's books. Don't ask me how I remember these things.
I also saw a 1911 with holly (the wood) grips, in one of the annuals, and have wanted holly grips ever since.

I just ordered holly grips for my RBH .44 spl.

I would say that "Manstopper" bullet is a cup-pointed hollow point, but that's more of a turkey fryer-pointed hollow point.
Flying ashcan, nothing. That's a flying soup can.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Plain old 255 gr LSWHP .45 Long Colt at 950 is plenty stopper for me.

Or 240 gr LSWHP .44 Spl. at 950.

And unlike the Brit version, these two above can be used well past 50 yards.

Deaf

 

[Jaymo]

Deaf, I'm with you on the .45 Colt and .44 Spl.

 

[rcmodel]

The auto round was faster.

And the old full power .45 Colt was 100 FPS faster then the .45 ACP auto, and heavier.

However speed isn't everything.

I'm here to tell you that getting hit in the boot heel by a .45 Colt 255 grain bullet bouncing off a railroad tie backstop 15 yards away made a believer out me about heavy and slow!!

It tore the leather heel off a good pair of boots and knocked the leg I was standing on mostly clear out from under me!!

A body hit from even that low speed bounch-back would have undoubtly "stopped" me for sure.

rc

 

[Jaymo]

Imagine a Lyman Devastator HP, cast in soft lead, fired from the .45 Colt or .44 Special. I have both molds and they are impressive boolits.

 

[.44 Associate]

In Double Gun Journal Spring of 2005 Ross Seyfried details the taking of an elk with a single .455 cartridge. I tend to accept that a .45 caliber hole on both sides is enough, regardless of the critter.

 

[Swing]

In Double Gun Journal Spring of 2005 Ross Seyfried details the taking of an elk with a single .455 cartridge.

Now that would be an interesting read.

 

[Jaymo]

.44 and .45 are my 2 favorite calibers. I used to want a Freedom Arms Casull.
Then I shot one. Now, I'm perfectly happy with .44 Spl and Mag, and .45 Colt.

 

[Gordon]

I have 250 rounds of Fiocchi .455 on hand of 400 I bought from a LGS that went out of business 17 years ago. I also have maybe 150 rounds of post WW2 .455 Kynoch banging around of the can I bought 26 years ago. The Fiocchi seems slightly hotter with it's lead 265 grain bullet versus the FMJ nickel colored Brit army loads. I have 2 Webleys and an old S&W Triple Lock chambered in .455 . If I remember the Fiocchi loads are close to 750 FPS in the Mark VI and the 6" Triple Lock , the British service loads about 700 FPS. In the 4" Mark V , which is my favorite , that is about 600 FPS for the Service Load and 650 for the Fiochi lead bullet. I really don't see any difference between these loads and the Cowboy Action loads for .45 Long Colt that are widely used (by me too !) today.I am sure they would rain on your days real quick to get hit with either.

 

[.44 Associate]

Now that would be an interesting read.

He usually is. The actually event, though, was kind of short on excitement. He stalked close, put a big hole through the on-side shoulder and both lungs of a 600 pound dry cow, and she ran off and then settled into the grass - just like they do when shot with the latest .300 magnum.

 

[Jaymo]

So, how IS Kynoch pronounced? I can think of at least 3 different ways.
KieNock?
Kinnick?
KeyNook?

I imagine getting shot with any .44 or .45 would ruin yer day.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Wasn't there like a .577 Tranter or something? Check this business out! Under the armpit would stop them best from what I heard.

 

[el Godfather]

Lots of people here are mentioning 44 and 45, size apart 455 is a different issue. How much energy does 455 dump upon impact and how does it measure up to the notion of being a MANSTOPPER compared to 9mm, 38s, or 45acp?

 

[Certaindeaf]

I think there was a .380/200 Manstopper also.. a .38 S&W cartridge propelling a 200 grain slug at around 650fps. It was said to tumble well and do better compared to the normal 158 grainer.

 

[Jim K]

The old 200 grain bullet load in the .38 S&W was called the Manstopper. The British, post WWI, were looking for a smaller and lighter revolver than the Mk VI and testing seemed to show that the .38/200 (as they called it) was as effective at short range as the .455. Probably true, as the .455 was pretty pitiful, but as things turned out, they wrote and talked a lot about the .38/200, and even called the round by that name, but never used it in combat. The Hague Convention forced them to go to a 178 grain jacketed bullet that was no better than the standard American .38 S&W loads.

It didn't much matter, since the revolver was considered a very secondary weapon. Ammunition issue in either caliber was a mere 12 rounds, with another 12 rounds in unit supply. That was considered perfectly adequate for a small dustup like WWII.

Jim

 

[rcmodel]

how does it measure up to the notion of being a MANSTOPPER compared to 9mm, 38s, or 45acp?

Energy is a pretty meaningless comparison in handgun calibers.

Myself, if I had druthers and had to be shot?
I'd druthers be shot with a 9mm going 1100 than a .455 weighing more then twice as much going half as fast.

Momentum and the size of the hole will put you in the ground belly up.

As found to be true by the British in the Zulu wars, and the U.S. Army in the Philippines.


rc

 

[sandy1000]

I had a Webley .455 revolver in the 1970s in as new condition. I bought it from a reputable gunsmith and with it came a box of ammunition. I loaded it and fired at a metal house agents For Sale sign. I was very wary of having my wrist broken or my arm jerked out of its socket but what happened was that there was just a dull thwack of the pistol firing and a thud on the sign as the bullet bounced off leaving a small dent. Now maybe the ammunition was faulty or deliberately not up to the point where it would have been too modern for the gun to withstand the shock but I am inclined to think that these revolvers were not "Manstoppers" as much as you would think. But certainly in a brawl in a trench where you were trying to beat in the head of someone with the butt then that huge lanyard ring would have been very helpful. I bought it because I was new to the security industry and I only wanted the cheapest gun in the shop. It cost me $14.00. It bewildered all those guys swaggering around with their .357 magnums etc., and there would be an awed silence as I uncovered the Colonel Custer style holster and pulled out this huge piece of ironmongery with its fluted barrel and that great lanyard ring.I wish I had kept it, it really was something.

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
That was a pretty sweet write up. I've had plenty of slugs of various velocities bounce off/just dent auto bodies of various vintages.. was that sign aluminum or steel?. probably the former.

 

[ThomasT]

I almost bought a S&W model 1917 a couple of years ago from a pawn shop that was chambered in .455. I passed on it because I couldn't find a source of ammo.

Since cupped nose bullets and HBWC bullets loaded backwards has been brought up I have a question for you.

In about 1986-1987 there was a Guns&Ammo article about the 38 Special being dead. That was the question. The article had a picture of a 38 round nose lead bullet with spider webs on it. The cartridge looked like it was turned out of wood so it could be scaled up with hollywood spider web.

In the article it showed some double hollow based wadcutter bullets. They expanded at 600fps and on up. The faster the speed the bigger the mushroom. And since both ends were hollow they were balanced and didn't tumble like the reversed WC loads I have tried.

I was never able to find any of these bullets. Has anyone ever seen any in 38 or any other size like a 44 or 45? If anyone has these old back issues and could look it up it would be appreciated. I think Tony Leske was the author. I even checked into getting dies made so I could swage my own but the $500 quote for the dies stopped me.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Lots of people here are mentioning 44 and 45, size apart 455 is a different issue. How much energy does 455 dump upon impact and how does it measure up to the notion of being a MANSTOPPER compared to 9mm, 38s, or 45acp?

The .455 was virtually identical to the .45 Colt, but with a shorter case and thinner rim. There are a whole family of cartridges -- including .450 Colt -- that are virtually intechangeable. The .455 delivered a bullet similar to the .45 Colt, but 200 to 400 fps slower (depending on the Colt load.)

 

[Jim K]

The .450/.455 was part of the considerable number of large caliber revolver cartridges that followed the percusiion revolvers in military service. Among the others were the .45 Colt, the 10.6mm Italian, the .44 Russian, the 11mm German, 11mm French and 11.75 Gasser.

In the black powder days, bullet velocity could not be increased significantly because of the limitations of the propellant. For handguns, with a limited charge, that deficiency was even more marked. So the onlly way to achieve the desired degree of lethality was to increase the bullet weight. As powders improved, and smokeless powder was introduced, bullet velocity increased and lethality could be achieved with smaller and lighter bullets.

The same thing happened with rifles, so the U.S. went from the .69 musket, to the .58 musket, to the .45-70, to the .30 caliber, to the 5.56. Is the 5.56mm fired from an M4 really more deadly than a .69 ball out of a Model 1842? Maybe not, but it sure has less recoil and the M4 fires a lot faster.

Jim