1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

5.45 vs. 7.62 for Urban Defense

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by snakyjake, May 26, 2011.


5.45 vs. 7.62 for Urban Defense

  1. 5.45

    22 vote(s)
  2. 7.62

    57 vote(s)
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. snakyjake

    snakyjake Well-Known Member

    Which is better 5.45x39 vs. 7.62x39 for personal urban defense: distance within 100 yards, penetrating sheet metal (automobiles), buildings (concrete, wood & sheetrock), personal armor (ballistic vest), and offers greatest wound?

    An example situation might be good guy inside a house, enemy on the outside taking cover behind another house, building, wooded brush, or car. More concerned with urban defense than range or cost.

    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  2. M1key

    M1key Well-Known Member

    Okay, who wants to go first?


  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    If you shoot some guy 100 yards away with either one?
    You better pray for a total breakdown of civilization as we know it.

    Otherwise, you will be arrested and charged with murder.

    It will be very hard to claim self defense if the BG is 100 yards away.

  4. JustinJ

    JustinJ Well-Known Member

    Even though this is a very redundant thread I'll bite and actually answer the question.

    I assume you mean 7.62 x 39. There is no question this round has better penetration and wound characteristics than a 5.45. Of course a 7.62 x 51 and 54 does as well. The primary advantages of 5.45, and main reason for its adoption, is easier control in full auto and it is much lighter so more ammo can be carried.
  5. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

    7.62x25? 7.62x39? 7.62x51? 7.62x54? 7.62x63? Exactly which 7.62 round did you have in mind for this comparison?

    And your answer regardless is: It depends; but training is about a thousand times more important than caliber.

    HGUNHNTR Well-Known Member

    ^ No doubt. Firearms training and physical training as well at that point. I would guess that more THR'ers are more prepared gear wise, than in firearms and physical fitness. Just a guess.
  7. Effigy

    Effigy Well-Known Member

    The wounding argument is debatable (see 9mm vs .45 for a similar debate), but the 7.62x39 is proven to have better penetration through barriers than 5.45x39 or 5.56x45. Personally I think the 7.62 would also have better terminal performance, but I don't have any "proof" to back that opinion.
  8. Robert

    Robert Moderator

    Gear and caliber do not make up for a lack of training.
    Come on RC, zombies can't afford lawyers. Sheesh.
    Yup. And we don't do SHTF, Zombie, or EOTWAWKI threads.
  9. General Geoff

    General Geoff Well-Known Member

    Depends on if the BG is a credible threat from 100 yards away. If he's taking shots at you, he certainly is.
  10. Gord

    Gord Well-Known Member

    I can tell you from experience that the roadblock guards' 12-gauge slugs have been very effective at stopping vehicles trying to get into my personal fiefdom (it used to be my local mall, but now I rule it from a throne of my enemies' skulls as King Grimthorr) without authorization.

    No, man, that's for the minion death squads to take care of. You gotta think bigger or you're never gonna get anywhere once the balloon goes up.
  11. M1key

    M1key Well-Known Member

    +1 What the General sez...

    Training, schmaining...Joe Citizen may only get or need one shot.

    0-100 yards the 7.62X39 will hit harder, penetrate heavy barriers better than 5.45.

    The 5.45 would begin to shine at ranges beyond 200 yards. Flatter trajectory and better inherent accuracy, increasing likelyhood of hits on target.

    Good luck.

    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  12. BobTheTomato

    BobTheTomato Well-Known Member

    7.62x63 with black tip AP. That should do the trick.
  13. amprecon

    amprecon Well-Known Member

    5.45 millimeter = 0.214 inch, 56gr. X 2700fps = ~900ft lbs of energy at the muzzle

    7.62 millimeter = 0.3 inch, 123gr. X 2400fps = ~1500ft lbs of energy at the muzzle

    You be the judge
    .22's are for squirrel huntin', .21's are for......well you get the picture. I'll go with a .30 over a .22 any day, I don't care how fast its goin', but that's just me.
  14. General Geoff

    General Geoff Well-Known Member

    I was under the impression that 5.45 was loaded closer to 3,000fps muzzle velocity..
  15. Shawn Dodson

    Shawn Dodson Well-Known Member

    I believe an SKS is a perfect, inexpensive EPR (Emergency Preparedness Rifle). I have two that I keep in the event of a breakdown in civil order, such as after a hurricane.

    7.62x39mm will reliably penetrate car doors & windshields with cheap ($5.00/20 rd box) Walmart ammo, whereas 5.56x45mm requires expensive ($20.00+/20 rd box) mail order ammo to achieve the same capability. (I realize the OP is inquiring about 5.45x39mm. Ammo choices are limited for this cartridge.)

    Stripper clips can be purchased for $20.00/100, which is substantially cheaper than 5.56x45 magazine.

    It doesn't cost an arm & leg to build a cache of 200-500 rds of 7.62x39 for "just in case."

    The SKS has hardly any recoil. The military stock fits just about anyone. It has more than enough accuracy for an EPR.

    No need to invest a whole bunch of $$$. Just buy an SKS, a sight adjustment tool, and stripper clips, and a sling. Keep it stock military and simply learn how to shoot it proficiently out to 200 yards.
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  16. smurf hunter

    smurf hunter Well-Known Member

    For all the SKS/AK fans, you could instead carry a dusty old 30-30 lever gun with approximate same ballistics and draw much less attention during a "without rule of law" scenario. Just my $0.02
  17. PTK

    PTK Well-Known Member

    I disagree. With FMJ military surplus, the 5.45 is far better. For example, 5.45x39 Bulgarian surplus ammo (at $0.11/rd) creates a similar wound profile as Federal 7.62x39 JSP ammo (at $1.15/rd).

    5.45x39 gelatin results
    7.62x39 gelatin results

    For what it's worth, with both using FMJ, while 7.62x39 has superior penetration, the wound channel is a joke compared to 5.45x39 FMJ.

    Compare the above still photos of 5.45 surplus to the wound channel shown in gelatin in this video: 7.62x39 FMJ gel test video.

    Just my $0.02. ;)
  18. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    No more of that sort of silliness or the thread won't stay open. It's absolutely realistic to talk about using a rifle for home defense, and maybe even at range out in the country somewhere, but we're not gonna go down the urban warfare path.

    Fair warning OK? Please keep it civil and realistic.
  19. GunsBeerFreedom

    GunsBeerFreedom Well-Known Member

    Suppose the question were framed differntly? Like, say we're speaking about the effectiveness of the Russian military units in urban environments? And I and other members were to discuss it in that manner?

    And to stay on topic, from a ballistic standpoint it depends on the loading.
  20. Gord

    Gord Well-Known Member

    Then the thread would get locked as off-topic. :)
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page