Paddy
member
I'm working up 748 for my match 223 load and wondered if magnum primers would be smart to use?
748 in 223 mag primers?
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jwrowland77
Member
I would use them if I was using 748, or BR primers. I use the CCI BR4 primers for my .223 match loads. They work great. I'm using CFE 223 and 2000-MR depending on bullet weight. Both powders are a ball type powder though. I get great consistency.
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Reloadron
Contributing Member
748 is one of Winchester's "ball" type powders. When I load any ball or spherical powders I like using a magnum primer like CCI 450 and when loading for an AR or other rifles with a free floating pin I use the CCI #41 primers also. Anyway, to answer your question, magnum primers, yes, they would be a wise choice to use. The older Speer manuals like #12 actually recommend them in .223 Remington loads using ball powders.
Ron
Ron
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Can't add much there. Like Ron said, when loading ball/spherical powders magnum primers are recommended.
conrad427
Member
I never had any trouble with 400 primers and 748 powder.
I use them in magnum cases, and only once in a while.
Certainly wont hurt anything though.
I use them in magnum cases, and only once in a while.
Certainly wont hurt anything though.
rodregier
Member
The CCI 400 has a thinner cup, would *not* be my choice for .223 Rem with a floating firing pin (such as AR15 pattern)
CCI 450 or BR-4 have thicker cups.
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/?topic=56422.0
CCI 450 or BR-4 have thicker cups.
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/?topic=56422.0
Way over blown issue. I loaded about 5000 rounds of 223 last year, all with CCI 400's. Never had an issue. Ive done the dent test, its a non factor.
@OP: Mag primers probably arent needed. Just an added expense.
jwrowland77
Member
Added expense? Mag primers are same price as standard primers around my area. Only one that normally has additional expense are the benchrest primers.
I have loaded (and shot) .223 rounds using IMR 4198, IMR 3031 and WW748 powders ignited using CCI 400 (standard), 450 (magnum) and BR4 (bench rest) primers. In the late 1970's in East Arkansas, CCI was the only brand of primers I could get locally, so I tried them all.
I do not shoot for extreme accuracy, so I can't subjectively say what impact the differences in primer had on each combination of powder and primer, but I can say my chronograph results don't show a material difference between the primer types.
I do not shoot for extreme accuracy, so I can't subjectively say what impact the differences in primer had on each combination of powder and primer, but I can say my chronograph results don't show a material difference between the primer types.
My thinking: you can use either standard or magnum primer.
But if weather is down to freezing you generally get better performance from magnum primers with a spherical powder.
If these are to be super accurate Match loads you might consider a Benchrest primer.
On the subject of primers for AR floating firing pin:
I've been reloading for AR15 since early in the 1990's.
In 2013 when primers were in short supply, what the heck I loaded 1000 rounds of 5.56x45
with H335 and 55 fmj-bt using - hold your breath! - just regular standard pistol primers.
All 1000 rounds fired perfectly and beautifully, none of the predicted 'slam fire' or anything, in 4 different rifles.
So you think I'm just lucky? I went out and did it again. And again. Total 3000 rounds.
Eventually primers became more available and I went back to my usual standard small rifle.
I think perhaps Al Gore's Internet makes too big a deal out of slam fire in AR15.
You think for yourself. I won't disparage your thinking as long as you think for yourself and make your own decisions.
But if weather is down to freezing you generally get better performance from magnum primers with a spherical powder.
If these are to be super accurate Match loads you might consider a Benchrest primer.
On the subject of primers for AR floating firing pin:
I've been reloading for AR15 since early in the 1990's.
In 2013 when primers were in short supply, what the heck I loaded 1000 rounds of 5.56x45
with H335 and 55 fmj-bt using - hold your breath! - just regular standard pistol primers.
All 1000 rounds fired perfectly and beautifully, none of the predicted 'slam fire' or anything, in 4 different rifles.
So you think I'm just lucky? I went out and did it again. And again. Total 3000 rounds.
Eventually primers became more available and I went back to my usual standard small rifle.
I think perhaps Al Gore's Internet makes too big a deal out of slam fire in AR15.
You think for yourself. I won't disparage your thinking as long as you think for yourself and make your own decisions.
Paddy
member
Thanks for all the thought-food here fellas. I've been using regular small rifle primers for every bring till now, however I bought a bunch of mag primers for my 300bo subsonic loading and then read about the mag primers with spherical powders ideas. Now, I've had no problems with standard primers so far, but if I can gain any accuracy I'm good with that. I don't shoot much below freezing and these aren't to be super duper accuracy loads, more just blasting ammo for my local competitions which top out at about 250yds.
So, does mag primer still see benefit on other calibers like 308 with large primers and 748?
So, does mag primer still see benefit on other calibers like 308 with large primers and 748?
jwrowland77
Member
I use mag primers in all my hunting loads whether I use a ball powder or not. Most in cartridges that don't call for mag primers. I've been able to get great accuracy in all of them. From .223, .243, .30-30, 7mm Rem Mag and .308.
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Reloadron
Contributing Member
Mag and Standard primers carry about the same cost. Will Standard, for example CCI 400 primers ignite ball or spherical powders? Will they ignite it as well as a for example CCI 450 Magnum primer? I really don't know. What I did notice and strictly my observation in my rifle (bolt gun) was that when I went to a CCI 450 in 223 shooting BL-(C)-2 that my groups tightened up so I went with the magnum primers. I really prefer the stick powders since I like loading for the best accuracy I can get. I like the BR primers in .223 Remington and in .308 Winchester. VihtaVuori N133 being among my favorite powders.
Anyway considering that 1,000 standard primers cost about two bucks less than 1,000 magnum primers and I have both I like using magnum primers with ball powders. For me it works and others do what works for them. I will say this, people should try the magnum primers with the ball powders. If they give better results then use them, if not then don't.
Ron
conrad427
Member
Honestly, the only time I have wished for a magnum primer was with 75 grains of US869 in a .264 Win Mag. Some hesitation with those loads.
Other than that, never needed or used them, from .221 up to 30-06.
I have used 748 or 760 in everything from 22-250 up to 30-06.
Other than that, never needed or used them, from .221 up to 30-06.
I have used 748 or 760 in everything from 22-250 up to 30-06.
matrem
Member
I too, have had better group averages with ball powders (mostly 335) in .223 when using magnum primers over standard 400s, or BR4s.
GooseGestapo
Member
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Depends on what part of the country you're in.
Deep South, any primer will do.
If in north and using them in fall through early spring, use the magnum primers.
Deep South, any primer will do.
If in north and using them in fall through early spring, use the magnum primers.
spitballer
Member
Side by side .223 tests of regular vs mag primers shows regular primers produce more pressure with stick powder than the mags do. Who knew? (2015 Hodgdon Annual Reloading Manual p 60)
Paddy
member
Interesting. Yep there's a whole bunch going on in that chamber that I will never fully understand!
If less pressure, and more accuracy, one would wonder why they still make standard primers?
If less pressure, and more accuracy, one would wonder why they still make standard primers?
Damon555
Member
You can use magnum primers in almost every load that you work up.....The key here is "work up".....If the load was worked up with standard primers start from scratch when switching over. I have several calibers that I use nothing but magnum primers for.....204 and 223. The only real issue I've seen is when using magnum pistol primers in smallish pistol cases.....you can run into problems there.
More expensive to shoot magnum primers?....Jeeesh....the internet
More expensive to shoot magnum primers?....Jeeesh....the internet
Don McDowell
Member
Don't believe that magnum primers are required with 748. At least the dozens of pounds of the stuff I've fired thru rifles from the .223 to the 405 winchester, cci 200 primers have worked just fine.
Jim Watson
Member
Winchester primer mix is made to ignite Ball powder.
Ifishsum
Member
I would use the magnums, I always do with ball powders as I saw slightly better consistency and accuracy when I tested. Not a requirement though, just a preference supported by my own testing. If all I could get were standard primers it wouldn't stop me from loading.
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