9mm better than 45 acp for defense???

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Since we have another 9mm vs. 45 thread going,

We should always have one caliber war thread going, like a pot of stew on the stove.:rolleyes:

Maybe just relentlessly merge all those threads into one giant multithousand post 9vs45vs40vs357vs"you all suck it's .25ACP 'hail of lead' all the way" megathread.
 
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I wouldn't want to get hit with either, but I'd be inclined to just split it down the middle with some sort of 10mm loaded with Silvertips or Georgia Arms or Double Taps. For what it's worth, I don't think I'll ever quite understand the argument that "they both suck because they're handgun rounds." I can't help but think that's akin to saying a hammer isn't any good because it isn't a drill press. Two different tools for two different jobs...but maybe that's just me.
 
The knight is more important than the sword. Find a handgun that you're comfortable with and can use proficiently; then stick with it. Caliber should be far down on the list when searching for this gun.
 
people spend endless YEARS debating this...I've carried 9mm,40, .45acp I preffer 9mm OR .45 generally though .40 is a good caliber to. They all do roughly the same thing and are all far more alike than they are different. Especialy compared to a .223 carbine or shotgun...which is nuclear in power comparatively. Then you have guys debate the same thing on .223 vs .308 (oddly I favor the smaller .223 in that arena...with apropriate ammo)

Bottom line is shoot the gun that feels and points the best for you in the largest caliber you can shoot with comfort. If cheap practice is a major issue get a 9mm (or better yet get a .22 kit for either one...shoot 200 rounds through it to warm up then swap (after a break)to your major caliber once you correct smaller issues!)

They all do the same thing...you may end up putting 3-5 rounds into a BG with a 9mm vs 2-3 with a .45....capacity offsets any differences anyway in most cases. I would be comfortable with a 9mm Glock with 124gr +P gold dot a .40 with corbon 135gr +P but do generally preffer my daily beater 1911 with good ole' 230gr HP. That is bases most largely on the fact that I shoot this gun the most and the best. And that there is a busy street outside the front of the shop...if I drop somebody I feel "slightly" better about 230gr HP maybe geting stopped in the BG or glass/wall/door before it gest to the street. But mostly I shoot it better so that's what I pack.
 
The 45 is a fight stopper end of story... I'm not bad mouthing the 9mm, but where ever u hit a bad guy with a 45 ends the fight.

Yep hit em on the tip of the finger and it blows his arm clean off at the shoulder!
Cauterizes the wound too!

Find the gun/caliper the works for you and practice. Forget about all of the other malarkey
 
Here's one gauranteed to stop them all...except for "Hortas" - they don't work so well on living rocks. (no doubt these are "illegal" in California)

kirk-phaser.jpg
 
45-nut <-------can't believe a mod showed up and left this one open!

- 9mm has "much" better penetration because of its much higher velocity.
Are they/you sure about that? References?

.45 going through about half as many phone books as 9mm.
I hope I never get attacked by a stack of phone books! You want it for defense or phone books?

- 9mm causes "much" more devastation. Several said they'd shot cinder blocks, etc. and 9mm's would pulverize the blocks whereas .45's usually just took chunks out.
Again, same as phone books.

- 9mm is more accurate.
PLEASE!

- Blackwater personnel prefer 9mm instead of .45.
And choosy moms choose Jif but I like Peter Pan.

- 9mm+P+ is about the same as .357 magnum (thanks to ammo improvements in the last 20 years). I told this to another gun shop guy--he thought it was a joke. 9mm is the same diameter as .357 though...
and 45+p is about the same as the wrath of God! Just kidding. They're all pistol calibers and are limited as such.

- 9mm's overpenetrate
Bull! Step away from the phone books!

- 9mm's do minimal damage.
Bull.

One gun shop guy..
And one gun shop guy told me that Bushmasters were the nicest AR's made!

- The military hates 9mm and wants to (or is) switch to .45.
What military? Who hates? The former marine/gun shop commando?

Practice with what you carry and carry with what you practice. You know what's on my hip right now? A 9mm! I have no doubt about my ability with this pistol and caliber. A miss with a 9, 40, or 45 is a miss. On the flip, a hit with a 9, 40, or 45 will yield about the same--they are ALL pistol calibers and suck! Don't worry so much about what the gun shop commandos say.
 
From playing the Swat series of games (Spinoff from the Police Quest series.) by Seirra,the LAPD Swat Merto Division,said that the .45 ACP cartridge has a greater 'knock-down power than the 9mm Parabellum cartridge,but there isn't a high-capacity option,as opposed to the standard-issue 92F.So,If I lived in the USA,I would choose the .45 over the 9mm Parabellum,in terms of 'knock-down' power,but I'd have both guns anyway,because I just love .45s and 9mms-as do alot of folks.:):)

Unfortunately for me,the days of owning a real .45 ACP Colt,over here are long since gone,but it's still good to read about them and see them in action,from time to time.
 
IMHO 9mm is much better when I carry my P7 psp or tauri 905 cause 45s won't fit but if I'm carrying my 1911 or AMT backup 45s are way better cause 9mm will fall out the end of the BBL.
 
- The military hates 9mm and wants to (or is) switch to .45.
I don't quite know where this person got their information from,but the .45 retired from 'official' service in 1985 replaced by the 9mm Parabellum Beretta M92F,but there are those Military units that prefer them over the 9-mm and they included The Navy SEALS,Marine Corps and others.I think that the switch to the 9mm was about NATO standardisation,or thats what I read,in a US armed forces summary,dated 1986.Is this correct?
 
Inasmuch as wars are no longer won or lost by pistols, the US military adopted the NATO standard 9mm for its normal duty requirements. Specialist groups, those who actually may USE a pistol for killing people dumped the nine years ago and didn't even look at the 40, going straight to the 45acp. You make up your own mind as to what that means. Yes, 9mm is an adequate self defense round. A 22 rimfire kills more deer in Oregon than any other caliber because it is the poachers favorite. I still prefer something with a bit more punch.
 
Choosy Counterstrike players choose Desert Eagle
No,I didn't the modern 'SWAT',I mean't the original SWAT game,featuring current and retired SWAT LEO's,who were talking about the history and equipment of the LAPD Swat,in the training section.By the way,the information is consulted by the 'professional' consultants,who were used to help create the game,giving it a more realistic touch,to it.If they say a .45 ACP,in a CQB or in this case a self-defence scenario,is better than a 9-mm,then it is-after all they are the experts in their fields.
 
I'm beginning to think all forums should automatically cornfield for review anything that has both "45" and "9mm" in the thread title.

I'd much rather not get hit by either. Call me "caliber agnostic."
 
Here's that age-old debate; It's been around almost as long as the ammo has. It may be cultural or "us vs them" in origin - German service handguns in both world wars were 9mm (Luger and P38) while the U.S. used the trusty 1911 - but I digress.

Penetration (how far the bullet goes) is only half the equation of a round's effectiveness. Permanent cavity (how much tissue it carves out as it goes through Sparky the BG) is the other. If penetration were the key, the only rounds worth anything for tactical use would be .22WMR and .17HMR, both of which are easily supersonic rounds and will go through several feet of ballistic gelatin.

There are valid points in both camps. 9mm guys say that a 9mm round, though lighter, is given more than enough energy to penetrate through the BG's entire body, and advances in hollow-point technology allow a 9mm to damage as much if not more tissue than a .45 while still penetrating. The .45ACP faithful maintain that simple is best; a 9mm round may or may not expand and no matter how likely it is to do so, there is always the chance it won't. A FMJ .45 slug doesn't NEED to expand to do massive damage to soft tissue, and it has the mass to shatter bone and continue past, still doing damage, where a 9mm, especially a hollow-point, is likely to simply lodge in the bone. In the case of hollow-points, a .45JHP will do yet more damage, however a JHP .45 does not have the impetus for the same penetration that a JHP 9mm would.

It all comes down to what you feel comfortable with, and also to cost. 9mm is cheap; most other handgun calibers are at least half again as expensive per round, including .45ACP. A 9mm also holds more rounds and kicks less than a .45 (these are dependent on comparative gun design; a compact polymer-frame 9mm is gonna have some upward oomph while a 1911 in .45 has more mass for less kick). This allows you to put more rounds into a BG in a shorter time (4-5 as opposed to 2-3, and fewer reloads if S really HTF). A .45ACP, if you can handle the kick, is a more massive round that does more damage per shot. This allows you to save some money over premium 9mm defense loads by spending $15 on 50 Winchester FMJs rather than $25 on 20 premium JHPs. (but the 9 still wins on plinking cost - target-grade FMJ would be $7/50 for white box). .45s also generally are arranged with single-stack magazines resulting in narrower grips, making them better for concealed carry and smaller hands at the cost of reduced capacity. This isn't always the case; the Glock 21 and 30 have staggered mags similar to a 9mm, giving 15-16 rounds of .45ACP goodness per mag (10 in the 30's compact mag).

9mm Luger ammo predates WWI (almost 100 years of military service), and serves a large portion of civilians, LEOs and now the U.S. Army. It's good enough for government work (literally) and many people trust their lives to it. .45ACP is also a venerable cartridge, and for over 80 years U.S. soldiers refused to have anything less on their hip. Many LEOs still use it, and 90% of the gun shop employees I've seen who carry in the store sport a cocked and locked 1911 in .45ACP.

In short, pick one and get good with it. Either round, used effectively, will persuade Sparky to cease his criminal activity and crumple to the floor with frightening speed.
 
These caliber discussions will continue, and continue, and continue........ et al :banghead:
Yep... WE still do. :neener:

Although I have stated .45 is better in all of these threads, I carry a .22 mag or a .32 Auto more than my .45. BUT...The .45 is still better.
 
Choosy Counterstrike players choose Desert Eagle
No,I didn't the modern 'SWAT',I mean't the original SWAT game,featuring current and retired SWAT LEO's, etc. etc. etc.

My comment was a joke, not intended necessarily to be accurate. Note the smiley attached to that and other of my posts in this thread. :)rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:). I don't think much of caliber war threads, and intend to mock them.

Taking purchase advice from the original poster's list of sources makes only slightly more sense than taking gun advice from plump and pale gamers blinking in the sunlight after emerging from their apartment in their mom's basement.

Speaking of mockery, maybe we should ask these guys for their opinion:

How's 'bout it guys -- nine or forty five?

top_2.jpg


Here's one gauranteed to stop them all...except for "Hortas" - they don't work so well on living rocks. (no doubt these are "illegal" in California)

Maybe we should have a Star Trek(R) vs. Babylon 5(R), phaser TOS vs. phaser NG vs. PPG thread.
 
Taking purchase advice from the original poster's list or sources makes only slightly more sense than taking gun advice from plump and pale gamers blinking in the sunlight after emerging from their apartment in their mom's basement.
If seeking gun-buying advice from LEO's, NRA instructors, military, gun enthusiasts, and gun shop salesman doesn't make sense then, pray tell, who does?
 
Target Ammos I've Fired...

Perhaps anecdotal, but in general, I have noticed that at fifty feet, .45 ACP leaves a big, "sloppy" hole in a pepr target, compared to the "neat" hole punched (in order of neatness) by:

. .357 Sig
. 9X19 mm
. 10 mm
. .40 S&W
. .45 ACP

The pudgy .45 ACP (one of my favorites) leaves holes like high speed gravel was used instead of ordinance. :scrutiny:

Another Observation: My G21 in 10 mm mode, using 135 gr Double Tap ammo, "out booms" all of the above, and the bullet ballistics (1600 fps, 767 ft/lbs) out performs most .357 magnum rounds. Gel tests on this ammo are outright "nasty". Upon reflection, this is the baddest set up I have. ;)

--Ray
 
Complete article.........

FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin... Oct 2004


CONCLUSION

Just as in the days of the American Old West when only the peace officers' superb gun-handling abilities stood between them and the violent outlaws of their time, today's law enforcement professionals still must rely on their firearm skills to protect their communities from similar lawlessness. Employing deadly force against another human being is not an easy choice, nor should it be. However, when an individual is intent on causing grave bodily injury, even death, to officers sworn to uphold this nation's laws, those officers must react responsibly and quickly to protect their communities and to avoid the loss of innocent lives, as well as their own.

The perpetuation of the one-shot drop by movies and television programs has no place in the real world of violent criminals bent on their destructive missions. Officers must realize that they have to continually hone their survival skills, always expect the unexpected, and never give up; they must protect themselves to protect their communities.
 
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