9mm oal
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The Bushmaster
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And then there's me...I load Remington JHP at 1.100". You may want to edit your post. It's rather hard to measure 5.05 grains. Maybe 5.5 grains. Be carefull with that load as it is rather high. My Sierra data manual lists a high of 5.3 grains of W-231. I hope you dropped that charge by 10% and worked it up to that charge weight...
Is the bullet in the Lyman manual a Sierra? Do both books agree on max loads? My Lyman #48 shows a Hornady 115gr bullet my Sierra shows their 115gr. Which are you useing?
Use the data exactly as writen, the OAL should be for the bullet used in the data and the max load should match. (Lyman =4.8gr of W231, Sierra = 5.3gr) Don`t take a lenght from one book and the charge from another especially if the bullets are different manufacture.
Use the data exactly as writen, the OAL should be for the bullet used in the data and the max load should match. (Lyman =4.8gr of W231, Sierra = 5.3gr) Don`t take a lenght from one book and the charge from another especially if the bullets are different manufacture.
they are remington .355 dia 115gr the powder is win 231 at 5.05gr its less than the max. i dont see where the manual says where rem bullets oal=...
win bullets oal=...
sierria bullets oal=...
new to it and just trying to figure it out
thank you
win bullets oal=...
sierria bullets oal=...
new to it and just trying to figure it out
thank you
Jim Watson
Member
.5 short of 5.1 is 4.6. 5.05 is .05 short of 5.1
Better work on those decimal points before you do much reloading
The Lyman OAL of 1.090 is for a 115 gr Hornady JHP.
This OAL business seems to be a real problem for the beginning reloader. If you don't see a load matching YOUR powder and YOUR bullet with a number for OAL, the safe thing to do is to load as long as possible and the cartridge still go in the chamber, go in the magazine, and feed from magazine to chamber. This might take some experimenting. Don't load too many until yo know they work.
Bushmaster's figure of 1.10" is about right for a 115 gr Remington JHP.
I have loaded Winchester 115 JHP's at 1.095, Master Match 115 JHP's at 1.085, and Remington 124 Gr. GS JHP's at 1.060. All with good success in a Browning High Power. I also have shot the 124 GS in an EMP.
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OAL in a small case such as the 9mm Luger affects both feed/extraction and pressure. A cartridge too long or short will tend to fail to feed properly and can in some cases alter pressures to dangerous levels depending on cartridge and powders being used.
VihtaVuori has a report in their manuals on the 9mm in which they changed seating depth with their 3N37 powder and a non-specific bullet. They altered the depth by -2mm (about 0.079") with a safe max load at ~230MPa (34,075psi, the ANSI max for this cartridge is 35,000psi) and found a rise to 330 MPa/48,575 psi, a 14,500 psi rise. (1MPa = 145.036psi) this is well over any sane load to be fired in the 9mm.
Changing the case volume acually changes the effective chamber volume of the cartridge and alters the area of expansion when the powder starts to burn. Bottle neck and larger straight walled case are not as sensitive to seating as small pistol straight walled cases but the effect still exists to a point.
The load one uses needs to follow the COL listed to reach the same result as given in the book. Different brand of bullet with similar wgt can have different geometry and seating to the same OAL as another brand can cause the base of the bullet to be deeper or in some instances shallower then the other. This is part of the reason different manuals give different OALs at times for the same wgt bullet. They know how much area in the case their bullet occupies at a given depth, and where the ogive reaches full bore diameter and may contact the rifleing at a certain OAL. This is also why when useing a bullet that no specific data can be found for, one must start low or at the starting load and work up watching for problems. (sticky cases, flat/leaking primers, splits, ect)
VihtaVuori has a report in their manuals on the 9mm in which they changed seating depth with their 3N37 powder and a non-specific bullet. They altered the depth by -2mm (about 0.079") with a safe max load at ~230MPa (34,075psi, the ANSI max for this cartridge is 35,000psi) and found a rise to 330 MPa/48,575 psi, a 14,500 psi rise. (1MPa = 145.036psi) this is well over any sane load to be fired in the 9mm.
Changing the case volume acually changes the effective chamber volume of the cartridge and alters the area of expansion when the powder starts to burn. Bottle neck and larger straight walled case are not as sensitive to seating as small pistol straight walled cases but the effect still exists to a point.
The load one uses needs to follow the COL listed to reach the same result as given in the book. Different brand of bullet with similar wgt can have different geometry and seating to the same OAL as another brand can cause the base of the bullet to be deeper or in some instances shallower then the other. This is part of the reason different manuals give different OALs at times for the same wgt bullet. They know how much area in the case their bullet occupies at a given depth, and where the ogive reaches full bore diameter and may contact the rifleing at a certain OAL. This is also why when useing a bullet that no specific data can be found for, one must start low or at the starting load and work up watching for problems. (sticky cases, flat/leaking primers, splits, ect)
CZ57
member
The only way to know if your load is too long is to gauge it in the pistol's chamber it will be fired in. Load manual OACLs for the 9 X 19mm are typically short for a number of reasons. One, is for pistols with short chambers/throats. If you shoot a SIG or a Glock, you can load much longer. If you load for a CZ, the 115 gr. Rem. JHP will be at max. OACL at 1.127". In this case, I load to 1.122" to allow .005" of freebore. It all depends on the pistol. I guess I'll need to update my Vihta-Vouri data, because I haven't seen Paschall pressure ratings. Bars and PSI in the CIP system is what I'm used to seeing from them.
Seating too deeply can be potentially dangerous, but I've never ran across a case where there was anything to worry about. Just execute a proper taper crimp to prevent bullet "setback," or further shortening when the bullet impacts the feedramp of your pistol. Typical OACLs for 9mm in load manuals run short. 1.090" is near minimum at this weight. Cor-Bon uses Sierra's bullet for their 115 gr. JHP +P load and a number of people have feed problems because the load is so short.
Sierra's 1.050" is for THEIR bullet which has a very long shank with a short nose. Consider their data worse case scenario. You won't find a bullet that has a higher pressure rating because of the short OACL and the long shank of the Sierra JHPs. In my experience, this is minimum baseline data that can be used for any similar bullet (i.e. JHP) weight load at the same start charge in absence of more specific data.. On the other hand, Vihta-Vouri and other European powder manufacturers may have a recommended OACL of 1.142". Again, it depends on the pistol you shoot. If you have a SIG or a Glock, 1.142" is not a problem. If you have a CZ, you'll need to shorten to 1.122". If you have a pistol that requires OACL to be as short as what some manuals recommend, sell it and buy something better!
I used to post frquently at CZ Forum, and one of the posts I did there was an explanation of how to gauge OACL with a specific bullet in your pistol. The quick method is to take a FIRED case that is under max. length, start a bullet into it and then place the dummy round into your pistol's chamber. Push on the rim until the case seats. Remove the dummy. Using the CZ pistol as an example, with the Rem. 115, as well as the 124 gr. JHP, that length is going to be near 1.127". That is the max. length possible. Shorten it by .005" to 1.122" and you have established .005" for freebore, or bullet jump. This is dependent on the OACL tolerances you typically get from your reloading set-up. If you use a progressive, make sure your variances are no more than +/- 002". Not likely, or I'd own a progressive. For every .001" INCH OF INCREASE TO THE TOLERANCE RANGE, ad that .001" to establish freebore. I.E. your press has a tolerance range of +/- .005", you then need to load .010" shorter than the OACL that you gauged in your pistol's chamber. In the case of the CZ mentioned, that would reduce OACL to 1.117", rather than 1.122". In any case, repeat this process multiple times to make sure that the dummy round comes out to a consistent OACL, AND, with any different bullet style that you use.
Understand this, and you'll be like many other 9mm reloaders, including guys that load them to Major Power Factor in IPSC, that turn a blind eye to comments on the 9mm being some inferior little cartridge. It probably has the strongest casehead you're likely to encounter among the popular autoloading pistol cartridges. The current SAAMI pressure rating is 35,000 PSI. Formerly, it was 35,700 CUP. A different pressure measuring standard, but by today's SAAMI standard, it would be nearly identical to +P at 38,500 PSI. The multitude of loading practices, including short OACL and selection of fast burning propellants, is one of the reasons why the pressure rating was lowered. That's another story, but since 3N37 was mentioned, I'll tell you that it is a much better choice than W-231 for the 9mm. Want to keep it simple with an American powder that costs less? Try Ramshot Silhouette.
Seating too deeply can be potentially dangerous, but I've never ran across a case where there was anything to worry about. Just execute a proper taper crimp to prevent bullet "setback," or further shortening when the bullet impacts the feedramp of your pistol. Typical OACLs for 9mm in load manuals run short. 1.090" is near minimum at this weight. Cor-Bon uses Sierra's bullet for their 115 gr. JHP +P load and a number of people have feed problems because the load is so short.
Sierra's 1.050" is for THEIR bullet which has a very long shank with a short nose. Consider their data worse case scenario. You won't find a bullet that has a higher pressure rating because of the short OACL and the long shank of the Sierra JHPs. In my experience, this is minimum baseline data that can be used for any similar bullet (i.e. JHP) weight load at the same start charge in absence of more specific data.. On the other hand, Vihta-Vouri and other European powder manufacturers may have a recommended OACL of 1.142". Again, it depends on the pistol you shoot. If you have a SIG or a Glock, 1.142" is not a problem. If you have a CZ, you'll need to shorten to 1.122". If you have a pistol that requires OACL to be as short as what some manuals recommend, sell it and buy something better!
I used to post frquently at CZ Forum, and one of the posts I did there was an explanation of how to gauge OACL with a specific bullet in your pistol. The quick method is to take a FIRED case that is under max. length, start a bullet into it and then place the dummy round into your pistol's chamber. Push on the rim until the case seats. Remove the dummy. Using the CZ pistol as an example, with the Rem. 115, as well as the 124 gr. JHP, that length is going to be near 1.127". That is the max. length possible. Shorten it by .005" to 1.122" and you have established .005" for freebore, or bullet jump. This is dependent on the OACL tolerances you typically get from your reloading set-up. If you use a progressive, make sure your variances are no more than +/- 002". Not likely, or I'd own a progressive. For every .001" INCH OF INCREASE TO THE TOLERANCE RANGE, ad that .001" to establish freebore. I.E. your press has a tolerance range of +/- .005", you then need to load .010" shorter than the OACL that you gauged in your pistol's chamber. In the case of the CZ mentioned, that would reduce OACL to 1.117", rather than 1.122". In any case, repeat this process multiple times to make sure that the dummy round comes out to a consistent OACL, AND, with any different bullet style that you use.
Understand this, and you'll be like many other 9mm reloaders, including guys that load them to Major Power Factor in IPSC, that turn a blind eye to comments on the 9mm being some inferior little cartridge. It probably has the strongest casehead you're likely to encounter among the popular autoloading pistol cartridges. The current SAAMI pressure rating is 35,000 PSI. Formerly, it was 35,700 CUP. A different pressure measuring standard, but by today's SAAMI standard, it would be nearly identical to +P at 38,500 PSI. The multitude of loading practices, including short OACL and selection of fast burning propellants, is one of the reasons why the pressure rating was lowered. That's another story, but since 3N37 was mentioned, I'll tell you that it is a much better choice than W-231 for the 9mm. Want to keep it simple with an American powder that costs less? Try Ramshot Silhouette.
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