9mm vs. .45 sidearms

[orangeninja]

.40 S&W would be ideal....

9mm for supressing fire.

.45 for take em down.

 

[Pylon]

I got it,

Lets just make a bullet that is 9mm + .40 + .45 and we'll never have to do with the caliber war again

 

[Treylis]

Lets just make a bullet that is 9mm + .40 + .45 and we'll never have to do with the caliber war again

Or maybe one of those duckfoot/tri-barrel guns so you can fire all three at the same time![/b]

 

[Pylon]

This is starting to have go off topic from the caliber war, but this thought just poped into my head. I once saw this "deck gun" at a museum i was at. It was basically a huge shotgun bolted onto the deck of some boat made to "take out floaks of geese" in one shot. I want me one of those.

 

[Model520Fan]

"deck gun"

But what would be the best size of shot to use in it? .36 cal? .45? .40, as some have suggested? or even my apparent favorite, .31?

This is undoubtedly worthy of a thread of its own.

 

[BluesBear]

made to "take out floaks of geese" in one shot

What you are referring to is a "Punt Gun"

In the last half of the 19th century "market hunters" used large bore shotguns. These ranged in size from 8 bore up to 2 inches!
The hunters mounted these cannon/shotguns on the bow of a flat-bottomed duck boat, called a punt. The boat was designed to glide silently through the water. Imagine a Jon Boat crossed with a Sculling Boat.
"Harvesting" was usually done at night, while a flock of ducks rested on the water. Once in range the punt gunner fired a large load of shot that killed a large portion of the flock all at once. Operating in pairs, two good "hunters" could bag up to 500 ducks per night. The use of punt guns has been unlawful since 1918.


John Paley Punt Gun Print

This boat is a little different than normal as there is no area for "the harvest".


Punt Guns are GREAT for hunting Dirt Dragons!

 

[Gabe]

They still do that in Russia. I saw a picture in one issue of National Geographics. The hunter used a 4 guage shotgun.

 

[Pylon]

Imagine this 4 guage shotgun with the barrel running almost the entire length of the 8 foot Jon Boat or so..and then imagine the recoi of this thingl and picture the Jon Boat (with the guy) going the other way....really fast

-Pylon

 

[halvey]

.45

In reality, the way wars are fought, sidearms are becoming less useful. With the exception for special forces and the like.

 

[BigG]

Other than in the US, you really won't find ANYONE using anything but 9mm.

Harold Mayo: Other than the US, ain't nobody won a war in the last two generations. Coincidence?

 

[No Trespassing]

"law enforcement who have told me the .45 is better.
They know more about it than I do."

___________________________________________


Why should they? I would think that a firearms enthusiast, whose primary pursuit is shooting and ballistics would know more than a cop who carries a gun becasue he/she has too.

Aside from special teams personel, I don't think LEO's know any more about firearms that the non-LEO shooter or non-gunner.

Almost all of the LEO's I know could care less about guns. I regularly BBQ with 15-20 cops & sheriff (courtesy of my cousin's husband). Aside from required testing, all but two ever shoot for fun/training. BTW, one prefer's 9mm, the other .45ACP both for reasons stated above.

Me, I like both. But my preferred auto round is my .44mag DE!


__________________

 

[No Trespassing]

Edit!


I said "..all but two ever shoot for fun/training."

I meant to say "ONLY two ever shoot for fun or training."

 

[Pylon]

Wooo! Let the caliber war go on

 

[steelhead]

.22 caliber pellet gun is far superior to the .177. Better sectional density, bigger hole, can knock a woodchuck completely around and back 3 inches if hit anywhere on the torso. U.S. Boy Scouts choose .22 over .177 whenever they have the choice and when it is not dictated to them by bean counters who have never shot an airgun. It is true that most of Europe uses the .177 claiming better controlability but that is just a weak excuse for not practicing enough to handle the significantly more affective .22.

In fact, one time at bandcamp....we got these goats but forgot our video camera......

 

[Pylon]

Ohh...now thats a debate i haven't had before. .22 vs .177


I vote for, .177 pellet and i stand by my shot placement theory. Ok on second thought maybe that won't work. Can i just shoot a bunch of .22's to add up to a 9mm? or is that cheating?

 

[Blisshead]

Hey, at least feel good that it's been educational for the new people, like me.

 

[Pylon]

Blisshead,

Glad some of our ramblings could be of such help to you. Fee free to make a new topic if you have any questions so we can ramble some more

 

[Berg01]

I was wondering which round you guys think is more useful in most situations.

Assuming my shot placement is good with either caliber; 9mm in a Mil Spec Beretta is useful, .45 ACP in a Mil Spec 1911A1 is more useful...

Does the greater stopping power of the .45 outweigh the 9mms lower recoil and increased clip capacity?

Perceived recoil is a subjective thing for different shooters; If I'm training diligently with a .45, its a non-issue, because you can hold the .45 on target if you have enough reps with it. You always carry extra mag(s) in a combat / defensive situation, so the cap of the .45 is not an issue

Or is a compromise like the .40S&W superior all-around?

IMHO, A Mil Spec 1911A1 .45. would stiil be better defensively, even if the Armed Forces were to trade the 9mm Berettas in for the .40 Beretta

 

[Mil Novecientos Once]

9mm vs. .45acp

 

[bukijin]

Depends if your primary weapon is a tommy gun or an mp5. You did say sidearm didn't you ?

Is there a place for lever action .357 and .357 revolver in this debate ?

 

[Pylon]

There is such thing as a .357 lever action gun? And are we talking about 357sig or 357mag?

 

[Devonai]

Ooh, I gotta get in on this thread.

I have owned semi-auto handguns in .380, 9x19mm, .40, .45, and 7.62x25mm.

With the exception of the .380, I have used every one of these for rapid-fire, shoot-and-scoot scenarios.

While my marksmanship on the slow-fire range has been pretty much equal with all calibers, such action-oriented scenarios have had much more varied results.

I've found that my best hit percentage was with either my Beretta 92FS or a Glock 17 when the scenario called for more than 15 rounds.

Firing a Glock 22 or a 1911A1 resulted in satisfactory performace when under 15 rounds were used, but beyond that point recoil and muscle fatigue became a major liability. The Glock 22 was the worst offender by far. Only the 9x19mm allowed the same performance for me on the first magazine as well as the fourth, with no fatigue effecting my sight picture or magazine changes.

I can't judge the 7.62x25mm in the same fashion because I only have two mags for it, but I would estimate the recoil to be somewhat more than the 9x19mm and somewhat less than the .40.

Since I am hardly lacking in upper body strength, these results are very compelling to me. I've discovered that for self-defense, any of the above calibers are acceptable. For battle, give me the 9x19! YMMV.

 

[cracked butt]

Both are inadequate, but I've heard that buckshot will stop a charging rhino in its tracks

 

[Longbow]

.40 cal! ' best "compromise" defense round. ' nufff said.
Now, can we do 1911 vs. Glock again?

 

[spartacus2002]

Since we're talkin' caliber wars, how about I tell you guys why 7.62 is so much better than 5.56?

(ducks for cover, runs away snickering....)