Leedavisone
Member
Got aquestion... is 9mm and 9mm luger the same thing? I haven't a clue
9mm
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The Burnside Ninja
Member
well... yes and no....
9x19
9mm Nato
9mm Para
and 9mm Luger are the same thing
however, 9mm kurtz and 9mm short or 9x17 are basically the .380 round.
9x19
9mm Nato
9mm Para
and 9mm Luger are the same thing
however, 9mm kurtz and 9mm short or 9x17 are basically the .380 round.
Leedavisone
Member
Confusing
OK.. well, if I buy a new Glock or CZ chambered for 9mm, what ammo do I buy?
OK.. well, if I buy a new Glock or CZ chambered for 9mm, what ammo do I buy?
Geronimo45
Member
Not always. There are dozens of different 9mm calibers - Largo, Bergmann, Mauser, Browning (the .380's european name), and more I can't remember.
A full-sized pistol like the Beretta 92FS will be 9mm Luger, which is the same round as 9mm Parabellum.
The most common 9mms you'll probably encounter are the 9mm Parabellum and the 9mm Browning (seen in blowback pistols like the PPK).
For a full-sized Glock (Glock 19) or full-sized CZ (2075 RAMI, 75, 85) you'll buy 9mm Parabellum=9mm Luger
A full-sized pistol like the Beretta 92FS will be 9mm Luger, which is the same round as 9mm Parabellum.
The most common 9mms you'll probably encounter are the 9mm Parabellum and the 9mm Browning (seen in blowback pistols like the PPK).
For a full-sized Glock (Glock 19) or full-sized CZ (2075 RAMI, 75, 85) you'll buy 9mm Parabellum=9mm Luger
Yes sir, same thing. Also 9mm Parabellum is the same thing. There are a few oddball 9mm cartridges out there though such as the 9mm Bergman Bayard, 9mm Bayard, and 9mm Largo to mention a few but in general anybody discussing 9mm today will be discussing the 9mm Luger/Parabellum.
Edit to add: if you are talking to a European person they may refer to a 9mm Kurz or Browning which is a .380 Auto here.
Edit to add: if you are talking to a European person they may refer to a 9mm Kurz or Browning which is a .380 Auto here.
When you see or hear "9mm" without any modifiers, it probably refers to 9mm Luger, aka 9x19, aka 9mm Parabellum (etc., as noted above). However, since there are a number of other rounds which have 9mm as part of the name or description, "9mm" alone is not really enough to fully distinguish any one type of ammunition.
Assuming you purchased a G17, G19, G26, or G34 model Glock, you would need 9mm Luger.
If you purchased a G25 or G28, you would need .380 Auto, which as others have noted is sometimes referred to in part as 9mm. I'm not as familiar with the various CZ models, but your manual would specify exactly what type of ammo your handgun would require, regardless of manufacturer.
-twency
Assuming you purchased a G17, G19, G26, or G34 model Glock, you would need 9mm Luger.
If you purchased a G25 or G28, you would need .380 Auto, which as others have noted is sometimes referred to in part as 9mm. I'm not as familiar with the various CZ models, but your manual would specify exactly what type of ammo your handgun would require, regardless of manufacturer.
-twency
Last edited:
Leedavisone
Member
So, the boxes of ammo I saw marked 9mm Luger are for most or all 9mm semi-automatics on the wall at Sportsman's Warehouse?
Yes. Most retail stores only carry 9mm Luger. If they have the 9mm Kurz it is called .380 auto. There may be some exceptions. Most of the other oddball stuff is likely older or custom. I have never heard of the other types mentioned above.
If you look at the pistol or at the box/manual, it should tell you exactly what ammunition to use with no abbreviation.
If you look at the pistol or at the box/manual, it should tell you exactly what ammunition to use with no abbreviation.
Furncliff
Member
probably
Jim Watson
Member
If you buy a current model CZ or Glock 9mm then the 9mm Luger, Parabellum, NATO, 9x19 that you see in the stores is correct. Most of the other 9mm calibers of history are pretty well obsolete unless you are from some foreign land and call .380ACP the 9mm Short.
Note 9x18 Makarov is not interchangeable with ANYTHING, it is really 9.2mm.
Note 9x18 Makarov is not interchangeable with ANYTHING, it is really 9.2mm.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
I don't like the metric system so I call a 9mm a .380 long
380/9mm
I have a 1908 Bayard. It has a stamp on it "380/9mm". So that would go along with the statements that the older foreign made weapons were listed as being both calibers. A common occurence lo all those years ago. Just don't try putting a modern 9mm cartridge in the mag...hangs out a tad (yup, I tried it a while back.) Tried manually loading a current 9mm to see how the head space was and it just wouldn't go. Wasn't all that interested in measuring just how much shallower the space was. Just a comment!
I have a 1908 Bayard. It has a stamp on it "380/9mm". So that would go along with the statements that the older foreign made weapons were listed as being both calibers. A common occurence lo all those years ago. Just don't try putting a modern 9mm cartridge in the mag...hangs out a tad (yup, I tried it a while back.)
Tried manually loading a current 9mm to see how the head space was and it just wouldn't go. Wasn't all that interested in measuring just how much shallower the space was. Just a comment!
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Makarov
But wait, there's more!
From here: http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IVI.html
. . . we get this:
But wait, there's more!
From here: http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IVI.html
. . . we get this:
Bobo
Member
A 9 mm diameter bullet generally measures .357 inches in diameter.
A 9 mm diameter x 17 mm long round has many common names.
Among them are:
.380 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol)
9 mm Corto
9 mm Kurz or Kurtz
9 mm Browning Short
".380 ACP" is the term most commonly used in the U.S., the other terms are used more commonly in Europe and elsewhere.
A 9 mm diameter x 18 mm long round is often called:
9 mm Makarov (actually 9.2 mm)
9 mm Police
9 mm Ultra
A 9 mm diameter x 19 mm long round is often called:
9 mm Parabellum
9 mm Luger
9 mm NATO
This is the most common 9 mm round. When the term "9 mm" is used alone, this is usually the round that is being referred to.
There are also other less common 9 mm rounds:
9 mm x 20 mm (Browning Long)(SR)
9 mm x 21 mm (IMI)
9 mm x 23 mm (Largo)(Steyr)(Bergmann-Bayard)
The .357 caliber bullet, as in ".357 Magnum (9 mm x 31 mm)" and ".357 SIG" are also 9 mm bullets.
The .38 caliber bullet, as in ".38 Special (9 mm x 29 mm)" is also a 9 mm bullet.
Most .357 caliber revolvers will also fire .38 Special rounds.
There are also other rounds with this same diameter bullet:
.38 S&W (Colt New Police)(Colt Super Police)
.38 Super Auto
That's all I can think of for now. I'm sure others can add more.
Very confusing, eh?
A 9 mm diameter x 17 mm long round has many common names.
Among them are:
.380 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol)
9 mm Corto
9 mm Kurz or Kurtz
9 mm Browning Short
".380 ACP" is the term most commonly used in the U.S., the other terms are used more commonly in Europe and elsewhere.
A 9 mm diameter x 18 mm long round is often called:
9 mm Makarov (actually 9.2 mm)
9 mm Police
9 mm Ultra
A 9 mm diameter x 19 mm long round is often called:
9 mm Parabellum
9 mm Luger
9 mm NATO
This is the most common 9 mm round. When the term "9 mm" is used alone, this is usually the round that is being referred to.
There are also other less common 9 mm rounds:
9 mm x 20 mm (Browning Long)(SR)
9 mm x 21 mm (IMI)
9 mm x 23 mm (Largo)(Steyr)(Bergmann-Bayard)
The .357 caliber bullet, as in ".357 Magnum (9 mm x 31 mm)" and ".357 SIG" are also 9 mm bullets.
The .38 caliber bullet, as in ".38 Special (9 mm x 29 mm)" is also a 9 mm bullet.
Most .357 caliber revolvers will also fire .38 Special rounds.
There are also other rounds with this same diameter bullet:
.38 S&W (Colt New Police)(Colt Super Police)
.38 Super Auto
That's all I can think of for now. I'm sure others can add more.
Very confusing, eh?
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Makarov
(oops, duplicate)
(oops, duplicate)
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
9 mm diameter . . . measures .357 inches in diameter
Not quite.
The actual diameter of 9mm Luger is .355 inches.
The .38 and .357 calibers are in fact .357 inches.
Also: 9 mm Kurz or Kurtz -- did you mean 9 mm Kurz or Short
(Kurz is the German word for "short")
Not quite.
The actual diameter of 9mm Luger is .355 inches.
The .38 and .357 calibers are in fact .357 inches.
Also: 9 mm Kurz or Kurtz -- did you mean 9 mm Kurz or Short
(Kurz is the German word for "short")
Geronimo45
Member
Here we go. About a dozen posts in answer to a simple question, some defining the exact diameter of 9mm bullets to the thousandth of an inch. Probably confusing the heck out of the guy.
Still, if you can't find an answer to a gun question on this forum, there ain't one. The knowledge base here is staggering, to say the least.
Still, if you can't find an answer to a gun question on this forum, there ain't one. The knowledge base here is staggering, to say the least.
Leedavisone
Member
Confusing?
OK... here is the reply from the guy. I got it now. If I buy a glock or a CZ with 9mm stamped on it, I will buy 9mm Luger. If it is stamped Kurtz, I will buy short .357 reloads that came from .38 boxes (as long as someone doesn't slip in a 9.2 on me). Aw hell... I think I shall just buy a 12 guage.
OK... here is the reply from the guy. I got it now. If I buy a glock or a CZ with 9mm stamped on it, I will buy 9mm Luger. If it is stamped Kurtz, I will buy short .357 reloads that came from .38 boxes (as long as someone doesn't slip in a 9.2 on me). Aw hell... I think I shall just buy a 12 guage.
Bobo
Member
ArfinGreebly said;
You are right! Thank you for the correction.
Bobo
You are right! Thank you for the correction.
I used both spellings because (right or wrong) I've often seen it spelled both ways.
Bobo
For everybody's info, this is the original thread where 9mm was originally suggested:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=245007
Yes, it is the 9mm Luger, a.k.a. the 9mm Parabellum.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=245007
Yes, it is the 9mm Luger, a.k.a. the 9mm Parabellum.
RustyShackelford
member
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9mmNATO or 9x19mm
In the US most people use the term 9mm to mean the 9mmNATO or 9x19mm. That's why I post 9mmNATO so THR.org members overseas know what I'm saying.
In the US most people use the term 9mm to mean the 9mmNATO or 9x19mm. That's why I post 9mmNATO so THR.org members overseas know what I'm saying.
If it is stamped Kurtz, I will buy short .357 reloads that came from .38 boxes (as long as someone doesn't slip in a 9.2 on me). Aw hell... I think I shall just buy a 12 guage.
Don't. They are NOTHING alike. The .380/9mm Kurz is NOT a thing like the .38 special or .357 magnum. They are totally different. Glocks don't come in .380/9mm kurz. Also, 9mm Kurz is most likely to be stamped on an older gun or not usually meant for import to the USA. Most "Made for Import" guns like the CZ and Glock are going to be in calibers common to those areas. CZ does make a .380 but it is labeled as a .380 (ACP, NOT .38 special).
Most times, when you simply hear 9mm they are not talking about 9mm largo or 9x21 or 9x23 or 9mm makarov or 9mm kurz. They almost invariably mean 9x19.
Don't. They are NOTHING alike. The .380/9mm Kurz is NOT a thing like the .38 special or .357 magnum. They are totally different. Glocks don't come in .380/9mm kurz. Also, 9mm Kurz is most likely to be stamped on an older gun or not usually meant for import to the USA. Most "Made for Import" guns like the CZ and Glock are going to be in calibers common to those areas. CZ does make a .380 but it is labeled as a .380 (ACP, NOT .38 special).
Most times, when you simply hear 9mm they are not talking about 9mm largo or 9x21 or 9x23 or 9mm makarov or 9mm kurz. They almost invariably mean 9x19.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Forgot the Smiley
Mark54g
Relax. He's pulling our chain.
Mark54g
Relax. He's pulling our chain.
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