9th Circuit Overturned Again....9-0 Court Gives Police Victory in Waiting Time

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Jeff White

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Now if we could just get them to take a Second Amendment Case. This decision is sure to be controversial with some members here.


Court Gives Police Victory in Waiting Time
http://www.yahoo.com/s/134861

By GINA HOLLAND, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - In a victory for law officers, the Supreme Court ruled unanimously Tuesday that it was constitutional for police to wait 20 seconds before knocking down the door of a drug suspect.

LaShawn Banks was taking a shower when masked and heavily armed officers broke into his Las Vegas apartment in 1998 looking for drugs.

His case gave the court the opportunity to clarify how long police must wait before breaking into a home to serve a warrant. The court ruled 9-0 that a 20 second delay was ample, because any longer would give drug suspects time to flush evidence down the toilet.

The justices refused, however, to spell out exactly how long is reasonable in executing warrants for drugs or other contraband.

Officers knocked and announced themselves at Banks' apartment, then waited 15 seconds to 20 seconds before using a battering ram to break down the door.

Justice David H. Souter, writing for the court, said that because police believed there were drugs inside, officers had more reason to rush.

"Police seeking a stolen piano may be able to spend more time to make sure they really need the battering ram," Souter wrote.

He said while "this call is a close one, we think that after 15 or 20 seconds without a response, police could fairly suspect that cocaine would be gone if they were reticent any longer."

Smart drug dealers, he said, would keep their contraband near a commode or sink.

The Supreme Court has said that in most cases officers are required to knock and announce themselves, under the Constitution's Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable searches.

In Tuesday's ruling, Souter said that generally courts have considered whether police moved too hastily "case by case, largely avoiding categories and protocols for searches."

The Las Vegas police and federal officers found 11 ounces of crack cocaine and three guns during the raid. Banks served four years of an 11-year prison sentence before his conviction was overturned.

Justices reversed the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) ruling in Banks' favor.

The appeals court had said that officers should wait "a significant amount of time" before making a nonforced entry, and a "more substantial amount of time" between knock and entry if property would be destroyed.

Souter said that the appeals court was wrong to set up a multipart scheme for reviewing knock-and-announce cases.

The case is United States v. Banks, 02-473.
 
I wonder if there'd be a market for safes that automatically incinerated their contents, and flushed the ashes down the drain, when your door was kicked down? :D
 
Now if we could just get them to take a Second Amendment Case. This decision is sure to be controversial with some members here.
Controversial ...? Yeah, I guess.

I have now totally lost hope. We now officially live in a police state.

So a tip from a dubious informant will cause you to have your door busted down, if you are on the phone or in the shower ....?

How about at night when you are in bed? There is no damn way I can get decent and get downstairs in 20 seconds. And when you bust in, you will be met by a hail of gunfire from the top of the stairs. (that is, after you get past the dog)

I hope these justices can sleep well after condemining who knows how many citizens and law officers to death.

An unconstitutional search to enforce an unconstitutional law ... :rolleyes:

And you want them to rule on the second amendment ...?
 
ugh...both courts decisions seem bad to me. I think this is another one of those instance that's going to require more experience and deep thought to finally get right.
 
Tallpine, are you a drug dealer? If not, how are they going to come to your house on a warrant? They need PC, and enough of it to get a Judge to sign off on it. Drug warrants are the result of an investigation. Are there errors made? Sure, just as there are errors made on anything in the world. The number of errors to warrants served is very minor (but still bears looking at to reduce it further).

All the best

TBO
 
Yeah, so if your neighbor thinks you stole that piano you are safe because the judge said the police may give you a little more time to answer the door (25-30 seconds?).
 
Yeah, so if your neighbor thinks you stole that piano you are safe because the judge said the police may give you a little more time to answer the door (25-30 seconds?).
No, they said in the case of a piano there is no urgency because it's not likely to be rapidly flushed down the drain, swallowed, or burned. Property warrants don't get no-knock status (unless the subject of the warrant is violent/armed etc).
 
They need PC, and enough of it to get a Judge to sign off on it.
In other words, they need a single informant to give them your name.
 
Tallpine, are you a drug dealer?
No, I only use legal drugs like caffeine and chocolate.

But what if my neighbor is a drug dealer, and they mistakenly come to my house instead of his ...?

But since when did it become okay to violate the constitutional rights of suspected drug dealers?

Since today, I guess. :(
 
Tallpine, are you a drug dealer? If not, how are they going to come to your house on a warrant?
Wrong house, wrong address, typo, faulty intelligence, mistaken identity, false affidavit sworn by some confidential informant who has no compelling incentive to tell the truth (from his point of view.)
Don't tell me these things don't happen until after you run a search at TFL and here.

They need PC, and enough of it to get a Judge to sign off on it.
Really? Run a search for "clerk sign warrants" on TFL. I can remember off the top of my head at least one case where it was discovered that court clerks throughout one Eastern state were keeping stacks of pre-signed, blank warrants which they would pass out to police rather than bother the judges at odd hours! :what:
Now, granted, if they're willing to do that, they won't follow any rules about how long to wait after they knock. But at least someone might witness it and do something about it--unless it's not against the law!

Are there errors made? Sure, just as there are errors made on anything in the world.
I'm sorry, it may not be fair, but errors that result in government agents shooting innocent people are not the same as errors that result in some kid having to go to his school office to get his GPA corrected.
Requiring police to knock and wait rather than bursting in would fix it so that, while those same errors would still happen, they need not be fatal. That's worth doing even if it means the drug arrest rate drops. Notice that no one brought up officer safety? It's all about getting more cocaine arrests.
 
TBO,
Officer safety is as important as non-LEO safety.
Neither are particularly served by dynamic drug raids.
 
The real culprit is the war on drugs. If we weren't fighting that futile battle this wouldn't be an issue.

The court is faced with a tough choice here. Require the police to wait for the suspects to answer the door (giving them time to destroy all of the evidence) or letting them knock and announce..then enter and allowing them to have a chance to seize the evidence.

The solution is to declare victory in the war on drugs and go home. Then we wouldn't have to make these kinds of decisions. The Bill of Rights will not survive the war on drugs and the war on terror combined.

We need to stop wringing our hands over decisions like this. The court is going to give the state a chance to seize the evidence. Anyone who thinks they won't is a dreaming. What we have to do to stop this is to take away the state's need to seize this kind of evidence.

Jeff
 
If the real goal of the war on drugs is to keep them off the street, it seems like flushing them down the toilet pretty much accomplishes that. Shame to let all that cool black gear go to waste after knocking and everything, tho, I guess.
 
This is again the problem with finding comfort in the word "reasonable." In this situation, it is reasonable because the (flawed) circumstances that require a quick entry to be reasonable for enforcement. Reasonable should be implied, but being left implied have a strong presumption against the restriction (here, againt unwarranted search and seizure). Because reasonable becomes enumerated along with the protection, it now starts off as a balancing test bewteen protection and enforcement, rather than starting out form the position that protection outweighs concerns for enforcement, and the enforcement needs must meet a higher burden of necessity.

In this particular instance, I would agree that the drug war, being predicated on (in my estimation, without just cause) outlawing private activity, necessitates the govenrment have more powers of searching private areas to effectively enforce those laws. So while I don't agree with the outcome, given the circumstances I can't see any other plausible way for the Court to rule.
 
You have 20 seconds to answer the doorbell

before it's ok for the policemen "serving a warrant" to go into full battering-ram, breaching-charge, home-invasion mode. That's according to a unanimous SCOTUS decision handed down today. I did a timed drill when I heard about it. Plunked my bottom on the can, imagined a knock, and started the stopwatch. By the time I'd done paperwork, donned and fastened lower garments, and gotten my hand on the doorknob, 45.69 seconds had lapsed.

What's wrong with this picture?
 
Plunked my bottom on the can, imagined a knock, and started the stopwatch. By the time I'd done paperwork, donned and fastened lower garments, and gotten my hand on the doorknob, 45.69 seconds had lapsed. What's wrong with this picture?

I can't begin to tell you.
 
Hey Mods!

Could someone please stick my starting post above into the other thread on the same subject? Seems I was a little late off the blocks. I still think my title is cooler and more gripping, though.
 
Bottom line:

You're bashing in doors, wiping your butt with the B of R, endangering both the occupant and the entry team, and giving little old ladies fatal heart attacks*, over a small pile of chemicals.

Jeff hit it: Time to declare victory and vacate the field.



*yep, this really happened. wrong address.
 
Blank Search Warrants

I worked for a guy a few years ago who said (and I believe him) his cousin, a deputy Sheriff in a a small-population county in south Georgia, was poking around (Bad Boy!) in the Sheriff's desk one day, and found a stack of search-warrant forms already signed by the judge, with ALL other spaces left blank. It happens all the time, TBO.
 
treeprof made a good point...

Treeprof made a great point for those not yet ready to give up the War On Drugs.

Think about it: what would be the cheaper and more reliable way to get drugs off the street? Investigations, stings,warrants, arrests, paperwork, court time and finally two weeks in Club Fed (out on parole two days later)? Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to simply knock on the dealers' doors while wearing the uniform, and let them dispose of the drugs for you?

Heh.

pax
 
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